Maverick
--Erich
The demographic that it serves is necessary, but the area has deteriorated. An update is needed
Walt: I'll second that. It could be vastly better than it is now.
it will be a record breaking woodie
For the love of God, no! After all, look how well that worked for Mean Streak, Son Of Beast, Rattler, etc. etc. etc. In fact, when I looked at the RCDB census by height, I was surprised to see how far up there Voyage is. If anyone can keep one of these larger woodies running right, I suppose Holiday World is the place, but the past performance of the giant woodies is pretty dismal.
Yes, if everyone is at least 46" tall. So if your kids are less than 6-7 years old, all you have is WE that all can ride.
Hawkeye: I completely agree with you. I was just pointing out that the park already has 3 "real" coasters that the 46" set could ride. Another one doesn't replace WWL (which *anyone* could ride, provided they had willing parents).
Remember earth quake, pirate ride and funhouse? I loved those as a kid. I wish something like that was still around for mine.
Hear, hear! I can't for the life of me understand why CP hasn't put in a Sally darkride or two yet.
What about just another flume? Are we setting ourselves up for anticipointment? What about a highly themed flume like the one at Knott's?
dexter: I wouldn't be disappointed at all. It think that would be great. But, the whole immersive themed ride experience is not in line with what CP does, really.
Brian Noble said:
Lots of posts, so I'll answer in bulk
The demographic that it serves is necessary, but the area has deteriorated. An update is neededWalt: I'll second that. It could be vastly better than it is now.
it will be a record breaking woodieFor the love of God, no! After all, look how well that worked for Mean Streak, Son Of Beast, Rattler, etc. etc. etc. In fact, when I looked at the RCDB census by height, I was surprised to see how far up there Voyage is. If anyone can keep one of these larger woodies running right, I suppose Holiday World is the place, but the past performance of the giant woodies is pretty dismal.
Yes, if everyone is at least 46" tall. So if your kids are less than 6-7 years old, all you have is WE that all can ride.Hawkeye: I completely agree with you. I was just pointing out that the park already has 3 "real" coasters that the 46" set could ride. Another one doesn't replace WWL (which *anyone* could ride, provided they had willing parents).
Remember earth quake, pirate ride and funhouse? I loved those as a kid. I wish something like that was still around for mine.Hear, hear! I can't for the life of me understand why CP hasn't put in a Sally darkride or two yet.
What about just another flume? Are we setting ourselves up for anticipointment? What about a highly themed flume like the one at Knott's?dexter: I wouldn't be disappointed at all. It think that would be great. But, the whole immersive themed ride experience is not in line with what CP does, really.
Hey Brian, couldn't have said it better. I especially agree on the record breaking woodie. I was surprised to see holiday world putting in such a large one. I was in Kansas City when Mean Streak debuted and heard it was fun the first couple years, then got too rough (I also rode WOF new woodie back then but can't remember her name). All that wood, warping, weathering, I thought the steelies were invented to address that. Keep the woodies in the size class they belong, getting beat and bruised is not my idea of a fun time. I was fortunate enough to ride shivering timbers (MGA) last summer with the older kids and it was great, nothing but hills and I lost count of how many. It was much more fun than MS, but that is my humble opinion.
Let's hear it for the return of the dark rides too!
I'm not saying I think it'll be wood. It could be though and it could be good.
I worked at Camp Snoopy in '99 and 2000, and on days I got off work before the park closed, I would change out of my uniform and go ride WWL for an hour or Two. It was so relaxing and sometimes I could almost fall asleep...I really am going to miss that ride.
mike.s., do you have a link or something?
"Honestly, NONE of what's been proposed really appeals to me.
- The Dive Machine has poor capacity, not to mention that the "trick" that makes it worth the money is already performed two-three times, depending on your feelings on MF being a basically vertical drop. Plus the whole tunnel/water table issue is a real problem despite what the kiddies on the site say (at least, I think so).
- The floorless is been there done that. Raptor and Mantis already do just about everything a floorless will do, and all they need to do is look at SFMM to see how insignificant a floorless, even with an AMAZING layout (Scream is a mirror of my favorite B&M looper, Medusa East, yet in its surroundings, it's very "meh")becomes in a park that already has a lot of coasters that provide similar effects.
- Flyers ... eh, they could do that, but the capacity and reliability of both B&M and Vekoma models are low, not to mention capacity. Also, I believe that Cedar Fair has never purchased a single coaster from Vekoma (some of their parks have Vekomas, but they were there pre-CF-sale) so it'd have to be B&M, and I think B&M flyers are way too much money for way too little experience.
- B&M Hyper is been there done that. They already have two "hypers" (even though one's a giga, but same difference), and I doubt there would be any sort of "wow" factor to this unless they really depart from the usual layouts and do like 1-2 large hills with a bunch of smaller bunnies and high-speed, high-bank turns and air-pops down among the
trees. I guess there are possibilities for this, but there are other styles of coaster that could give the same feelings and style, for a lot less money (read: wood)
- 4-D is an interesting thought, but they already tried twice to depart from tried-and-true technology (WT and TTD) and got burned both times ... once severely (TTD). I doubt you'll see this one from a fool-me-twice-shame-on-me perspective and the fact that the Arrow version, while probably different from the B&M version, has horrid
capacity (although that's more due to maintenance issues than true capacity issues). I also just think it's a little too wild for the current park climate. Everyone's going for the family buck, and I think whatever's going in is going to be a little tamer
Which brings the only logical conclusion (in my book) which is still slightly disappointing: wooden
I think if they do a wooden a-la Voyage that follows my description of the B&M hyper, one tall hill, then a bunch of small pops and turns and stuff in the trees, it'd be a huge success, as long as it's well maintained. But, again, I just think it lacks the wow factor and also
is disappointing because over by the beach and Demon Drop like you mentioned is a much more attractive location for a wooden twister.
I don't really know if I like ANY of the possibilities. Up until they built TTD, there was always one style, one movement, one method of acceleration or flipping you that the Point didn't have. But now? It's like playing Roller Coaster Tycoon and you've now built one of every single type of coaster offered. There's nothing brand new that you don't have yet, so the best thing you can do is try and out-do something you already have, but that's not a real great business decision unless
you are actually losing money on the ride you're replacing.
Which brings me to a real out-there thought that I don't think anyone's considered yet ...
- Wood is the only real coaster type that seems to make sense, either that or 4D
- People say Kinzel doesn't necessarily want to go out with a bang, but who really believes that?
- Mean Streak gets low ridership, and is long past the point of being marketable
- Mean Streak costs them ridiculous amounts of maintenance for the benefits to the park
- White Water Landing was located adjacent to Mean Streak
- The area of midway back there has been dead for years
What about if Mean Streak is on the chopping block for this year, and there's going to be a whole new area of the park reconstructed back
there? I'm talkin' a complete redo of the midway. A giant-sized flat ride, a couple of mid-sized flats, a new kiddie coaster, a new kiddie play area, a mid-sized, but destined to be great wooden twister and maybe toss in that floorless, 4D or flyer. How do you market something that by itself isn't all that marketable? You polish that turd! Put in
a whole new area of the park. Draw the crowds away from TTD and WT and MF and Raptor (your 4 most popular attractions). Pull them back into the corner of the park. Open new food stands, open new souvenier stands, make it glitzy, make it over the top, make it a new place the whole
family can enjoy (high thrills 4D/Floorless/Flyer for Dad and the teenagers, wooden for the thrillseeking family with smaller kids, kiddie coaster for the little ones, convenient food, convenient shopping, etc.
Who knows, probably a little much, but like I said, there's nothing that really seems like it'd be a good fit for the place other than that in my eyes ..."
If that did happen, they are going to have a rediculous amount of space. It would be a great chance to move/create a kiddy area, install a new coaster, and round it out with a more fluid layout.
But... I personally think a floorless is coming and MS is staying. ;)
*** Edited 2/14/2006 1:55:24 AM UTC by Neuski***
I read the last part and agree that a total makeover is possible. I would love to see the park become more accesible to families even if I don't have one yet.
dexter said:
Oh...I forgot. Wood sounds like fun, and sounds like "Maveric", but a wood coaster seems too solid of a structure to be pleasing to the eye in that area. There's also another wood coaster right next door. The next wood coaster I want to see at CP would be white and somewhere near WT.But I'm not the one deciding what ride goes where, now am I? Wood would be great in FT!
When I say watercaoster a few posts up, I mean like in RCT where the track is a coaster that splashes down into a pool, like the one that was replaced at Silver Dollar City.
Shall we keep in mind that El Toro is going right beside the puny Rolling Thunder? I pesonally don't think it'll be wooden but it isn't too far fetched.
--Erich
You lost me around "totally rebuild the area and demo MS and put in 10 new multi-million Dollar rides". That just sounds like a fantastical daydream to me. It would be reasonable to do something like that in many phases, slowly working towards a final goal, over many years.
Woodstock's Express is a Vekoma, is it not?
Mudvayne, I have always had this wierd thing that putting Two wood coasters close together of the same color is just plain wrong, because it would confuse onlookers trying to follow the layout of each ride. If Maverick is to become a woody, I hope they find a different color other than natural unless MS is ripped down, which would be cool but not likely, imho.
4D would be cool. Skyhawk prooves that CF isn't still mad at S&S over the whole new ride breaking in half thing? There's a second 4D being built on another planet (China, is it?), so maybe some of the kinks have been worked out.
When is CP going to get a freekin' Giant Jump II? That's what they need!
MS is staying and is getting a floorless cousin, I hope. *** Edited 2/14/2006 6:57:04 AM UTC by Neuski***
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