Maverick Opening Delayed til June!

Ok Jeff / Rob..Go to your Rooms! ;-)

Take Two:

Okay that does it! No more talking about Cedar Point in this thread on a Cedar Point topic! CP has taken up four lousy pages and that's enough!

How bout that Renegade? Oh, wait--that's a CF park.

Sheikra?

-CO

^^^ I'm getting accused of making smartass remarks? Sad how you do it and it's perfectly okay, but someone does it to you and you suddenly try to crawl to higher ground.

I've said a lot of stuff on this site in the past seven years but I have never said anything extremely harsh about Cedar Point. I disagree with many of the things they do (like removing classic attractions/structures, their lack of interest in wood coasters and darkrides, etc.) but I've always maintained that it's a nice park that I enjoy visiting from time to time because of their ride selection and world-class ride operation, so don't try and turn the tables and make me out to be some kind of anti-CP troll. But while I don't hate the place, I'm not going to pretend it's as perfect and flawless as some people on this site make it out to be. IMHO, there are plenty of other parks out there that are much better than CP, and I have a problem with the fact that my opinion qualifies me as some kind of amusement park elitist to some people... usually people that jump up and down in a childish fit when someone says something negative about CP (and no, that's not directed at you Jeff, because I know you have been critical of the park in the past).

Again, you're missing my point because you're taking bits and pieces out of what I said and not looking at the entire statement. That's what I have a problem with.

*** Edited 5/10/2007 8:53:25 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

Could it be that Cedar Point/Fair have given us more to talk about over the past X number of years than any other park? I post regularly at LaughingPlace (for Disney-philes) partly because I am a former cast member and partly because I enjoy Disney.

But, I'd classify myself a park enthusiast long before I'd say I'm a coaster enthusiast and I'm here because I started out on PointBuzz (Guide to the Point) and expanded my reading when Jeff/Walt expanded their sites.

Here's a thought. If you don't like the way conversations go here...find someplace else. There are millions of websites that I don't frequent...because they don't have anything to offer me. Maybe that is the case for some people either here or on PointBuzz.

I am actually moving Labor day to Houston half the time and Sacromento the other, and my new parks will be Kemah Boardwalk and SFDK, if I am wrong someone correct me, but I like Cedar Point to an extent but I am not a big fan of the hour+ lines on some rides which I except. I defiantly like SFDK having gone there 4 times the reason is they have my favorite coaster there but also a GCI Intamin Impulse which I like and a hangandbang(not a positive) but its a nice park, so I think you like what you like.

Saying all that werent we talking about Maverick opening late, big bummer for those planning to go up there saturday, also Renegade thats still opening up right?, or is CF is big doodoo.

Oh...and I will be the last person to say Cedar Point/Fair is perfect and flawless. Far from it. I think they have the ability to become one of the elite companies...and I think their size doesn't make them that.

Perhaps the big guy is starting to change his ways. But, there are a lot of things he does that I think holds them back from greatness and until he lets some of his very capable people fly on their own they are going to fall short of that greatness.

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Jeff said:I know it comes as a complete shocker, but maybe, just maybe, people speak highly of the park because it's actually a pretty good park by the majority's standards.

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Careful Jeff, you're starting to sound like a ravenous fanboy. :)

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Rob Ascough said:

Why is it okay to be passionate about Cedar Point but people who are passionate about Conneaut Lake are regarded as blind, narrow-minded morons not capable of seeing the big picture like the self-proclaimed business gurus on this site?

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I don't really get who this is aimed at. The CL has five pages and is still at the top of the active forum list. Thats pretty impressive for a park that seemingly has no fans. Jeff is right, of course a park with millions of visitors is going to have more interest than one with 1000s. Its not that crazy if you think rationally about it.

You can't complain that people aren't pationate enough about your topic, then complain that people are too pationate about theirs.

And just cause I don't feel like working at the moment.

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Rob Ascough from the "Help Conneaut open this year." thread said:

^^^ Seriously, just shut up already. We've been over this before... many times. Can't we have one thread about Conneaut where we discuss the matter at hand, rather than how "it's no longer a viable business"?

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I will ask the same of you. Can't we just have one thread about Cedar Point where we talk about the park, and not that there are way better parks that no one ever talks about?

Lets not forget how much The Voyage, and Holiday World in general are talked about. Or that Flying Turns has a 19 page thread about it.

There is plenty of other park talk here. Some people just love Cedar Point. I think thats ok.

Well Cedar Point of course is not going to appeal to everyone, but I think in general its thought highly of in the amusmement park industry. This is the case because the park does have alot of roller coasters and attractions, for the most part high capacity rides and little downtime. Of course there selection of wooden roller coasters is perhaps not as highly thought of several other parks, and for certain people their steel coasters might be a tight fit, but thats just a few of their drawbacks. It does seem to have a steady attendance of 3 million guest or so and to do well in polls such as amusement today they have to be doing something right.

But back to the discussion at hand, which is Maverick. In my opinion as disappointing as the delay is, its not really the first coaster or major ride to have issues its first season. I remember from kings island that Flight of Fear I don't think opened till around june or so, and am sure Drop Zone, Tomb Raider, Son of Beast, had their issues regarding downtime its first year or 2. I think the real issue is whether a year from now, how the ride operates. If its operating with little downtime, giving great rides, even though its start of the first year will be disappointing it could still be a success for the park. If I remember correctly The Beast after its first season had certain sections such as the helix banked more. Also Magnum had some issues its first season as well considering it didn't have upstop wheels. I think just be patient and see if the ride is open and doing well in june.

Rob, I think you are taking things a bit to far ; the thing about CP is that has turned itself into the roller coaster enthusiast Mecca. Think back to when you really became an enthusiast, which park was on the top of your list to visit? And its not just the number of coasters they have, face it a vast majority of enthusiasts have not one, not two but three of their coasters (Raptor, Magnum and MF) near the top of their steel coaster rankings.

Due to its name value, I bet that CP is the most visited park among buzzers (expect maybe Disney but I have a feeling CP is #1) when almost everyone has been to a park and thus have interest in threads on it you are going to draw more people, and thanks to the law of averages you are going to also draw more of the extremes when it comes to love/hate of CP. Thus you get more fanboys, but just because most of us like CP doesn't mean we are all fanboys. Check out the MF seat belt thread and the TTD closings/delays you will see a lot of venom directed CP's way. In this instance though, and until I get more info, the only thing I blame the park for is in choosing Intamin again, but thats just my view.

Its not just enthusiasts either, when you talk to anyone around the country (and Im talking places as far away as New England, Texas, DC, Yellowstone that I can remember specifically) and they discover your love of coasters the discussion, after talking about the local park(s,) will inevitably turn to "that park in Ohio." It may not have the name recognition of Disney but a large majority of people it as "the park in Ohio with all those roller coasters."

Finally, since most of us have visited the park it has also turned into a benchmark of sorts on how parks are run (some are better, some are not) and their rides.

So in conclusion and in short: CP has become an icon of the amusement industry and a destination for enthusiasts. Due to the sheer volume of people you get a lot more people responding to CP targets and thus more fanboys. However, I just dont see the skew you do.

You guys just aren't seeing Rob's point. :)

Onsite Funcoast video of Bryan Edwards

http://www.funcoast.com/media/2007/05/10/Maverick512K_Stream.mov

The last dozen or so responses do an excellent job of proving my point. Talk bad about a Six Flags park and people will jump on the wagon fast enough to risk getting themselves run over. Talk bad about Cedar Point and people crawl out of the woodwork to tell you how off base you are or how you're not realizing the park's greatness.

I ask again, when have I ever been overly critical of Cedar Point? The answer is never. I have complained about its faults throughout the years but have never trashed the place like some of you trash other parks. Why is it someone that says something about Cedar Point that doesn't paint it in the most positive of ways is suddenly branded as anti-CP? Why is it that criticism directed at any park is considered legitimate, but criticism directed at Cedar Point is considered blasphemy? And why is it okay for someone that makes it known that they love the place to say something negative about it, yet when one of the park's critics such as myself says something negative, a half dozen people can't wait to throw some punches at me in the back alley? Maybe that's why some of you are labeled fanboys- it's not so much your love for the park, but how you often refuse to listen to anyone that might have a valid point that doesn't favor the park?

When I was a younger and just starting to get into coaster enthusiasm, Cedar Point was at the top of my list of places to go. And when I finally got to the park thanks to my parents, I loved every minute of it. But in the years that followed, I traveled around the country and got introduced to many other wonderful parks- some worse than CP, some better than CP, and some just plain different than CP. Perhaps what really bothers me is the fact that some people who claim to be enthusiasts refuse to look beyond Sandusky, or refuse to admit that there's anything of value outside of Sandusky. Those are the people that are quick to tell you that Cedar Point is the greatest, even though they are the last ones to say anything about your preference for other parks.

You know what? I think it's great that so many of you think so highly of the park... I really do. I've always thought of passion being a nice thing, and if Cedar Point brings out passion in people, I couldn't possibly be any happier. And trust me that I don't say that with a hint of sarcasm, because I sincerely feel that way.

With that said, I'll gracefully take my negativity out of this thread and instead focus on something else on this site that's more my speed. It's not that I give up or am backing down from what I said, it's just that I'm not in the mood to get into any more pissing matches right now and would rather engage in a conversation that doesn't lead to a slight elevation in my blood pressure. I'll leave this Cedar Point thread to all of you that truly have passion for the park, and I hope that next time something comes up involving a park like Conneaut, Camden or Williams Grove, you'll stay out of it with comments about how they're no longer viable businesses and should just close down. Sound fair?

*** Edited 5/11/2007 3:54:19 AM UTC by Rob Ascough***

You're seeing what you want to see, Rob. Most of us have criticized Cedar Point quite extensively. Its biggest fans are its harshest critics.

LOL! Yeah there are people posting in this thread who I haven't seen here in years. Crawling out of the woodwork indeed! ;)

BTW Rob, I do get your point and I agree with most of it. Different rules apply to this park whether it is rational or not.

This shouldn't be news though. I usually don't even mention this park *at all* anymore because I just don't want to hear it. ;)

Trust me when I say that I'm seeing what I don't want to see. Cedar Point has many of the makings of an ideal amusement park:

1. It has a great lakeside location and is isolated from everything around it.

2. It has a ton of roller coasters and many of them are downright decent, with a few being truly great (Gemini, Blue Streak, Millennium Force and Raptor).

3. It has more than enough rides to make the trip to Sandusky worth the time and money.

4. The grounds are kept clean, the staff is friendly, the prices are reasonable and the park's operations people should travel to parks around the country and teach them the right way to do things.

But with all that said, the park has it's faults. It needs a darkride or two, and considering how many coasters it has, a couple more good wood coasters should be part of the picture. Each time I visit the park, there are fewer trees and more vast expanses of concrete and gravel. A few new flat rides wouldn't hurt, either.

I'm sure some of the park's biggest fans are its harshest critics. I'm about as diehard as Yankees fans come, but I'm also downright brutal when it comes to certain things about the team. But when someone else starts bashing the Yankees, I don't get on their case and try to convince them that they're out of line. I'm not going to point fingers (especially because a few of the people I'd point fingers at aren't involved in this conversation), but there are people around here that talk down to anyone that slams Cedar Point in any way, and that's not right. This is a coaster discussion forum and while I get involved in heated debates with people from time to time, I happen to like it here and I truly enjoy all the conversations I take part in. One of the great things about this site is balance, and when it gets to the point where it becomes taboo to say anything bad about Cedar Point is when I start to worry about that balance.

Whenever you say anything bad about a park people love, you're gonna hear about it. Just look at my Knott's Trip Report. To me, I didn't think the park was all that. But, people who love Knott's stuck up for it. I don't really see anything wrong with that though. As long as people can respect other people's opinions and see situations from multiple perspectives, everything works out. Knott's wasn't what I consider to be an awesome park. But, I can see why a lot of people love it. Magic Mountain impressed me a great deal, but I can also see why a lot of people would have issues with it.

I agree with you though, conversation and debate is a good thing. If everyone on here had the same feelings on every topic, the forums would be really dull. I know I wouldn't come back as often as I do to check and see what other people have said.

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halltd said:As long as people can respect other people's opinions and see situations from multiple perspectives, everything works out. (snip) I agree with you though, conversation and debate is a good thing. If everyone on here had the same feelings on every topic, the forums would be really dull. I know I wouldn't come back as often as I do to check and see what other people have said.

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Can I quote you on that? ;)

:)

Different opinions are great! But you should never be insulted or feel intimidated to express adverse opinions for fear of 10 different people chiming in to tell you that you don't know what your saying.

If you look at that Knotts thread, even those that defended the park did so respectfully, while also agreeing with some of your points.

Most CP fans are down to earth and realistic about the park, and open to all opinions. Even at Pointbuzz I've found this to be the case. But there are a few nut cases out there that show up like clockwork to go at you if you say one thing that doesn't portray the park in the most positive light.

You can always spot them right away, because you can start your post with, "I really like Cedar Point", then go on to say something less positive, and they will completely ignore half of what you said, and focus almost entirely on what wasn't so glowing. It's hilarious. *** Edited 5/11/2007 4:35:01 AM UTC by DWeaver***

But there are a few nut cases...You can always spot them right away...

Yeah, they have usernames that incorporate the name of a coaster at the park ;)