Maverick Opening Delayed til June!
Age and experience usually calms even the most rabid of fanatics...my first trip to CP, I was over 30 and was like a kid in a candy store. My tastes may have evolved since then, but I still love CP....for what it IS. For what CP is NOT, I can go to other parks. The new-to-me parks I was most excited about getting to THIS year: Stricker's (finally!) and SCBB (ditto!).
But I'm looking forward to CoasterMania (even without Maverick), 'cause I'm gonna get me some Derby Downs and Gemini and Calypso and Blue Streak. Kickin' it old-school. ;)
I gotta do some penance now: Wildcat. Sorry Anton. :(
*** Edited 5/11/2007 4:45:38 AM UTC by rollergator***
DWeaver said:
Different opinions are great! But you should never be insulted or feel intimidated to express adverse opinions for fear of 10 different people chiming in to tell you that you don't know what your saying.
You don't know what you're talking about. ;)
rollergator said:Can I quote you on that? ;)
Sure you can. I always try to see things from multiple perspectives. I think my posts are just sometimes misconstrued. I only have issue with people on here when they completely dismiss someone's opinion on something even though they've backed it up with thought or some type of evidence. The only other time is when people argue about things without giving some sort of logic or reasoning being their thought process. "I think so and so. Well, why do you think so and so. Because I do." Those kind of "debates" aren't really debates, they're just annoying. *** Edited 5/11/2007 4:53:13 AM UTC by halltd***
Lord Gonchar said:
DWeaver said:
Different opinions are great! But you should never be insulted or feel intimidated to express adverse opinions for fear of 10 different people chiming in to tell you that you don't know what your saying.You don't know what you're talking about. ;)
Yeah well... FANBOY!!!!????!!!! ;)
Mamoosh said:
But there are a few nut cases...You can always spot them right away...Yeah, they have usernames that incorporate the name of a coaster at the park ;)
LOL!
So now you're making the same argument we are?
Rob Ascough said:
But with all that said, the park has it's faults.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Rob Ascough said:
But with all that said, the park has it's faults. It needs a darkride or two, and considering how many coasters it has, a couple more good wood coasters should be part of the picture.
You say that like its a fact and not just your opinion.
Rob Ascough said:
Each time I visit the park, there are fewer trees and more vast expanses of concrete and gravel. A few new flat rides wouldn't hurt, either.
While they tend not to preserve the landscaping that was there before adding a new ride, they do put back and re-plant. But trees take time to grow. I do miss the days when I could walk past Iron Dragon and Corkscrew and have a nice quiet, shaded walk. But I also love the Dragster midway and the atmosphere it creates when the ride is running well.
Rob Ascough said:
One of the great things about this site is balance, and when it gets to the point where it becomes taboo to say anything bad about Cedar Point is when I start to worry about that balance.
But when anyone gives another pov about a park you like, say, CL for instance, you blow up and criticize people for not caring about saving the park.
Bottom line is, you are always jumping all over the park and the people who love the park. But a lot of us grew up with it and have the same feeling for it that you do for any of the smaller parks you are fond of. I have great memories of my dad taking my cousin and I once a year. Of Magnum's, Mean Streak's and Raptor's opening year with my dad. Then later Mantis' and Milenium Force's opening year with friends.
Its not the same as it was back then, but the change hasn't been for the worse in my opinion. Its just different.
I've been making the same point you've been making, but I feel that since I express a lot more love for parks that aren't Cedar Point, that gets me tossed into the "anti-Point" group, which I don't think is right. It's always seemed to me that if you don't express endless love for the place, your criticisms are invalid. That's always been my problem and I'm just trying to figure out what that is, since Coasterbuzz members seem to to support all parks and not just one in Ohio.
^ I rarely jump all over the park and people that love it. And in the rare instance when I do get a little hostile, it's because I feel the person is failing to see the big picture- just like people jump all over other people on this site because they feel they're not looking at the big picture as far as the business end of things is concerned. I don't want to brag, but I've been on this site since 2000, and if there is one thing I'm sure of, it's that my opinions and statements have been pretty consistant since I first started posting. I take offense to claims and insinuations that I'm against the park because I'm not and my history proves that. If anything, I think I work both sides of enthusiasm pretty well. I'm a very dedicated supporter of small parks but I also have a true love of modern theme parks. I could spend one day at Chagrin Falls (sp?) outside of Cleveland and the next day on The Strip in Vegas and thoroughly enjoy myself both days.
As for my criticisms of the park, they are my opinions. I didn't mean to suggest that all people feel that Cedar Point needs a darkride, a new wood coaster and some more trees, and I don't think it was too difficult to realize that I wasn't trying to speak for everyone. But you did do a good job of supporting what someone else said a few posts ago- people immediately pick up on the bad stuff said about the park in trip reports and completely ignore the good stuff. Like I just said, what about the nice things I said about Cedar Point?
*** Edited 5/11/2007 3:46:43 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***
Parks such as Holiday World were barely a blip on the radar at the time as well. People knew they had The Raven, and that it made some of the t.v. shows, but it wasn't a place that everyone said "Now there's someplace we have to go to this year."
Where I have seen things morph again though in the last year or so (maybe more), is that Coasterbuzz has become the Wall Street Journal, if you will, of amusement-related websites. I don't necessarily think that's a good thing. I find the majority of the information that I care about anymore is in the forum section and not the News section.
Granted, there is a lot less information to work with than in the so called 2nd golden-age we had a few years ago when Six Flags was building multiple attractions every year, and not just two spinning-coasters and few Wiggles World/Thomas the Tank Engine play areas. But personally, I'm not finding all the quarterly-results figures to be all that exciting.
Where I have seen things morph again though in the last year or so (maybe more), is that Coasterbuzz has become the Wall Street Journal, if you will, of amusement-related websites.
Yeah I often wonder why the website isn't renamed to CoasterBIZZ lol. Lots of armchair quarterback CEO's at play here it seems (myself included occasionally when it comes to the smaller indie parks...Gonch can have and keep SF.) ;)
I don't have any problem with talking about the business aspect of the amusement industry. I often find it fascinating to learn what goes on behind the scenes- that kind of insight is surely of interest to most enthusiasts on some level. But there are a lot of armchair CEOs around here, and when they try to convince you that you're not as right/smarter/connected as they are, it creates a lot of tension. People don't like being talked down to or told that their statements are flat-out wrong/idiotic/unfounded/foolish, especially by people that, as far as they're concerned, aren't industry experts (despite who they talk to and what those people may tell them). Conversation is all well and good but unless something is coming at me straight from the mouth of Dick Kinzel, Jay Rasulo, Dick Knoebel or Will Koch, I reserve the right to be skeptical and not take everything that's said as "the word".
*** Edited 5/11/2007 5:31:52 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***
Rob Ascough said:It's always seemed to me that if you don't express endless love for the place, your criticisms are invalid. That's always been my problem and I'm just trying to figure out what that is, since Coasterbuzz members seem to to support all parks and not just one in Ohio.
You just have a me vs.CoasterBuzz attitude when it comes to these sort of things. Your allowed to criticize the park all you want, just don't complain when someone criticizes a park you love. It goes both ways. Thats my point.
A darkride would be good---earthquake and pirate ride were always highlights of any visit back in the day. A dark ride is #2 on my Most Wanted list.
A second decent wooden coaster would be good. Putting it near the water would be better. Demolishing the sucky one already near the water to build a better one would be fine with me. But, I can live without it, too. Not really a Most Wanted.
One negative he didn't mention: are we ever going to get a log flume back? Once upon a time, there were two. Now there are none. Sad. Right now, there's nothing that gets you just a little bit wet. You can get soaked, or you can stay dry. That's it. A log flume is my #1 Most Wanted missing attraction.
On the other hand, I view Maverick as a positive trend. Rather than continually going with bigger/taller/faster, Maverick is none of those things. My six year old, who last year was afraid to ride anything taller than Blue Streak, has been talking about Maverick all off season. His tune might change when he sees actual trains on it, but it wasn't built to intimidate. It was built simply to entertain. That's good.
I'm okay with the flats collection. A couple giants (maxair/skyhawk). A handful of classics (including cedar downs, a tilt-a-whirl, and a fine ferris wheel). A couple of transportation rides (train, paddlewheel, sky ride). All in all, a pretty good offering.
To me, where the park falls down the hardest is in foods. Hideously slow service providing still-overpriced, unimaginative food. All the staples are there, and some are okay, but still nothing to get excited over and a lot to avoid. The sole exception might be the Berardi-style fries. Those are darn good. I was hoping the fried perch might be The Signature Item, but every time I stopped by, the stand was closed. Bummer, dude.
You mean the big picture according to Rob Ascough, right?
Rob Ascough said:
And in the rare instance when I do get a little hostile, it's because I feel the person is failing to see the big picture...
You have a tendency to argue slightly related points that aren't relevant to the core discussion. Yes, Cedar Point could use a lot of things (although this "concrete and gravel" thing blows my mind since it has been decades since trees were removed for a new midway, save for the three or four that game out for the new games area). So what? No one here is going to disagree about a big wish list. If I remember correctly, you're annoyed or something that people are defending CP for closing the ride and fixing it. Am I right there? Is that annoying because no one will defend Conneaut Lake? I'm trying very hard to see your big picture, but I don't.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
ColumbusCoaster said:
SVLFever said:
The thing I don't understand is that it's not like Intamin, or Stengel for that matter, don't know how to design the 'heartline roll'. Granted, this is the first one that is being done horizontally, but, isn't the roll the same basic design that TTD uses on the downward trip, or even WT uses as a spike???? If so, then the horizontal aspect of this must have created a totally different dimension of stresses.Actually, it's not even the first horizontal one. All of the Intamin 8 inversion and 10 inversion coasters have multiple horizontal heartline rolls. The big difference in those is that they come towards the end of the ride where a lot of speed has already been burned off. Maverick's is almost ground level and comes after a launch.
I can't really comment on Furious Baco, but I'd be curious to see how many Gs it pulls through the heartline.
- Aaron K
Thank you Aaron, I was unaware.
To me, then this was more a case of an untested design. I am guessing they thought about this, however, based on the trims on the uphill before the spike. They wanted to thrill everyone with the launch, but then slow them down enough to make the roll. Well....almost enough....
jwhoogs said:
why are they still testing the ride? Maybe they really haven't made up there mind about removing the heart-line roll
I was wondering the same yesterday when i saw the webcam.
Maybe they want to make it break and force a warranty issue with Intamin? (sheer speculation there) If the train breaks, there must be an error in engineering, ergo, fix it for free. (???)
Great Lakes Brewery Patron...
-Mark
FLYINGSCOOTER said:Maybe they want to make it break
I'm sure Cedar Point is trying to make the trains fail and crash. Then they'd have sections of track to replace AND new trains to wait for. That definitely sounds like it's in the best interest of the park. :rolleyes:
Okay, what do you think? They postpone the opening because something needs to be altered. They decide they need to replace 3 sections of track, to "eliminate excessive stress on the trains".
So, while they're waiting for the track, lets stress out the trains some more by running it?
Above statement in quotes came from CP's Maverick Announcement.
Great Lakes Brewery Patron...
-Mark
Closed topic.
