Maverick Opening Delayed til June!
halltd said:
You can only make negative comments about CP if Jeff agrees with you. Otherwise they're without merit or thought.
There's a smiley face after that one but all kidding aside, it's pretty much what I'm trying to get at. Maybe that's not the way you feel, Jeff- I really don't know or care how you feel. But that's what it seems like to me with you and a few others. You're allowed to criticize as long as someone that has a hand in running the site agrees with what you're saying, otherwise you become the target.
It is, by no means, reason enough for anyone to feel that they shouldn't post here- anyone communicating online needs to develop some pretty thick skin. But that kind of thing does make a debate seem a little less legitimate.
Hardly. That's like saying every music fan likes every song or that every sports car enthusiast likes every sports car or that every... well, you get my point.
Ex_Westview and KW_worker said:
I thought enthusiasts enjoyed ALL parks and coasters
I honestly cant think of a park I didnt enjoy in one way or another.
First you bitch about CP fans. Failing at that, you play the Conneaut card. Losing again, now you're going after Jeff. How much more idiocy are we going to see as you attempt (and repeatedly fail) to come out on top?
If you stuck to one argument, you'd have every right to do so. However, you're not trying to prove a point--you're just trying to argue everything that comes to mind in an attempt to eventually win something. You can criticize Jeff, but with these actions, you're coming off being as much of an attention whore as you claim he is. Bravo!
I'm a big movie fan, and I dislike probably half of the films I see (but not the cheesy chick flicks for some reason). Why would coasters and amusement parks be any different? It's not a political cause, it's something I like to do in my spare time. And as a customer spending money, I certainly won't piss away cash on something that doesn't interest me (unless it's a movie :)).
And about being annoyed, well, think whatever you want. Pecking out my sarcasm or whatever on the keyboard doesn't get my heart rate up.
There's still no conspiracy to prop up Cedar Point and put down small parks. That's not a world of absolutes that any of us lives in.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
To me it is like sports. I'm a Browns fan (why, I have no idea....I must be a masochist). So, I hate the AFC Central teams. But, when my team inevitably misses the playoffs I will root for one of the other AFC Central teams. And, by the time we get to the Super Bowl I just want a good game to watch.
Cedar Point does a lot of things right. They also do a lot of things wrong. Honestly, there is no perfect park out there. Even Tokyo Disney Seas, which is highly regarded by enthusiasts around the world, draws some criticism.
That's just it, I don't care if Conneaut lives or dies. I'm just realistic about its chances.
But if you don't care, why bother posting in a Conneaut thread? Just come in after Conneaut becomes a new lakeside Wal-Mart and enthrall us all with an eloquent "told ya so" speech.
And there's a difference between being realistic and being defeatist. It's not like you can see something that pro-Conneaut people can't (unless you have access to mounds of super secret data). I think we are all well-aware of the problems Conneaut faces, but some of us do care about the place and are not willing to give up on it. Heck, the people running the place haven't given up on it. Why should we?
Edit: please don't bring in any Iraq war analogies! :)
*** Edited 5/14/2007 12:38:48 PM UTC by millrace***
SFoGswim said:Hardly. That's like saying every music fan likes every song or that every sports car enthusiast likes every sports car or that every... well, you get my point.
Ex_Westview and KW_worker said:
I thought enthusiasts enjoyed ALL parks and coasters
The difference comes in the attitude. No, you don't have to like everything but you should respect other people's opinions. I know that Rob Ascough is a big Sanjaya Malakar fan. I can be realistic and tell him that his music preferences belong to meth lab central or I can respect his opinion and tell him "well, it's not for me but I'm glad you enjoy it, musical diversity is a good thing."
PhantomTails said:
Every time someone proves that your argument is irrelevant, you move onto something equally stupid, Rob.
Nice job entering the conversation at the last minute just for the sake of being heard. I move on to other points not because I've been proven wrong (I don't recall any moments when Jeff or anyone else has delivered the final blow in the debate) but because I chose to bring up other aspects of the conversation rather than staying focused on the same thing page after page.
Other than that, I have nothing else to say to you. If you want to act mature and insert yourself into this debate acting as a semi-respectable human being, that's fine... but if you think you're going to get me to acknowledge you by tossing about a bunch of insults like a little kid on a playground that desperately wants someone- anyone- to look in his direction, you've got another thing coming. Act your age.
Jeff said:
Here come the "webmaster picks on me" posts. Boo hoo.
Yup. Because just as I said in my post last night, I cried all night. Couldn't sleep at all. Spent all night on the couch watching infomercials because the webmaster was picking on me. Talk about delusions of grandeur.
I'm a big movie fan, and I dislike probably half of the films I see (but not the cheesy chick flicks for some reason). Why would coasters and amusement parks be any different?
They're not any different. But if you say you liked a movie like Jersey Girl (which I happened to like- Kevin Smith caught a lot of sh*t for that "chick flick" and I don't think a lot of it was warranted), I have no right to bring up a bunch of reasons why your opinion is unrealistic or your love of the movie is misguided. It all goes back to being about the way you phrase things. There are certain ways to talk to people if you want to engage in a real debate, just like there are ways to talk to people if all you want to do upstage the other person and attempt to discredit the next thing they're going to say even before they get a chance to say it.
And about being annoyed, well, think whatever you want. Pecking out my sarcasm or whatever on the keyboard doesn't get my heart rate up.
Wasn't meant to. Just my version of constructive criticism- take it or leave it, I honestly couldn't give a damn.
millrace said:
But if you don't care, why bother posting in a Conneaut thread?
Right. People that don't have anything to say about Cedar Point that hasn't been said before aren't supposed to infect a CP thread with their negativity, but it's perfectly okay to do that in a Conenaut thread. Now we're getting into the topic of a double standard.
And there's a difference between being realistic and being defeatist... I think we are all well-aware of the problems Conneaut faces, but some of us do care about the place and are not willing to give up on it. Heck, the people running the place haven't given up on it. Why should we?
Sure there are people around here that care, and if it's not a significant portion of the Coasterbuzz community, it is at least a very vocal portion of it. Why put those people down by making them feel as if they have no brains for expressing their positive opinions of the place?
I know what you're going to say- it's your site and you can do what you want. And in a way, you're right. If I want to stand in my front yard and scream at the top of my lungs, I have a right to do that, or at least attempt to do that- after all, it's my front lawn. But Coasterbuzz is about a community of people contributing all kinds of things to each conversation, not about the opinions of a few being supported by everyone else. At least that's what I've felt it to be the past seven years, and wished for it to be over the next seven years.
Mine was fabulous! Had a great time with my kids as usual, ran a fairly good time for me (considering there were 90879879 people to dodge) at the breast cancer 5K, met a buncha new people and--oh yeah, almost forgot--new coaster. Good times.
Oh wait. Is this still going on?
Rob Ascough said:
If you want to act mature and insert yourself into this debate acting as a semi-respectable human being, that's fine... but if you think you're going to get me to acknowledge you by tossing about a bunch of insults like a little kid on a playground that desperately wants someone- anyone- to look in his direction, you've got another thing coming.
Like showing him how it's done, I guess?
Jeff said:
Here come the "webmaster picks on me" posts. Boo hoo.Yup. Because just as I said in my post last night, I cried all night. Couldn't sleep at all. Spent all night on the couch watching infomercials because the webmaster was picking on me. Talk about delusions of grandeur.
*Blows dust from Ironic Post of the Week trophy*
Impressive.
Well kids? I'm gonna go run now and write about what matters to me now. But I'm sure you'll be at it when I get back!
-CO
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
When is the last time I did? I lost interest in those topics ages ago.
millrace said:
But if you don't care, why bother posting in a Conneaut thread?
You don't? Then why do you bother posting anything? What is it you've been doing all this time? Isn't that the whole point of discussion and debate?
Rob Ascough said:
...I have no right to bring up a bunch of reasons why your opinion is unrealistic or your love of the movie is misguided.
I can't figure you out.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Jeff said:When is the last time I did? I lost interest in those topics ages ago.
I knew there was a reason why the current topic was running so smoothly! :)
Just out of curiosity, did you have an interest in the park "ages ago" when you last posted about it?
*** Edited 5/14/2007 2:46:40 PM UTC by millrace***
It's obvious we're having a hard time figuring each other out, but I'm not sure what else I can say to get you to understand any of the points I'm trying to make (an invitation for all of you arguing against me to chime in and support that theory).
This isn't about anyone not being able to express an opinion, it's about the way people sometimes respond to the opinions of others. Again, it's not so much about the thought, it's more about the way the thought is expressed.
Suppose I have really strong feelings about the new Mercedes C-Class: "I think the design is terribly generic and not at all appropriate for a sedan that aspires to compete with the BMW 3-Series." Suppose you happen to completely disagree with my opinion. You can say something like, "I disagree with you because I don't feel that way at all- I think the design is fresh and makes the BMW look absolutely bland in comparison." Or you can say, "That's a worthless critque of the design- you don't know what you're talking about because the C-Class is the best-looking car on the road today."
Both responses basically say the same thing- that you disagree with my opinion of the C-Class being bland by calling it a beautifully-designed car. But while one response makes it clear that you respect my opinion while completely disagreeing with it, the other makes me out to be someone that doesn't know what they're talking about because our opinions differ so much.
It's not about hurt feelings. It's about creating and maintaining an environment where all opinions are welcomed, even if the people with the opinions are in a minority group. It goes back to being able to say something about a park that's highly-regarded around here such as Cedar Point. I just found it comical that my criticism of the park was fine because it was in line with what the Cedar Point supporters were saying, yet when my opinion went a bit beyond what was being said, I suddenly fell under heavy fire for being anti-CP.
If you can't figure that out, I'm really not sure of where else to go from here.
*** Edited 5/14/2007 2:48:02 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***
^^^ Seriously, just shut up already. We've been over this before... many times. Can't we have one thread about Conneaut where we discuss the matter at hand, rather than how "it's no longer a viable business"? Regardless of what you may think, no one likes a troll and no one likes a tool, and when you're a bit of both...
How is that an conducive to "maintaining an environment where all opinions are welcomed, even if the people with the opinions are in a minority group." joefromdowntheroad had an opinion, he shared it, and you jumped down his throat. You could have disagreed with, responded nicely or ignored it.
We understand it's your opinion but the same opinion has been voiced around here many times.
How many times are you going to tell us you don't like Cedar Point and that your in some made up minority?
Practice what you preach and people will not argue so much with you.
There, that should keep things going for another page or so. :)
And just so I get this straight, it's okay for someone to say that someone else's idea is "foolish" or "stupid", but it's not okay to tell someone to shut up? I'd like to get a handle on what beneath-the-belt attacks are justified and what aren't.
And to answer your question, it's zero. While I have long criticized Cedar Point for a number of different things, I have never said that I don't like Cedar Point. Don't put me on a side that I never joined in the first place.
*** Edited 5/14/2007 5:19:07 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***
Pass the popcorn.
Closed topic.
