Magic Mountain Gay Pride Night

mlnem4s said:
It is easy for everyone to say things like just blend in and society will accept you but I dare say none of you have been jumped, mugged or brutally pistol whipped for the simple act of walking into or coming out of a gay bar. So no matter how hard any member of the LGBT community tries to just go about their "blending in life" there are still parts of society who have so much hate towards anyone different that they seek to act out violently, often with deadly results.

And going out of one's way to establish 'pride' to these kinds of idiots is going to help?

That kind of goes back to what I was saying. Why would you go out of your way to make a distinction with people like that?

Tekwardo said:
I don't think anyone is saying 'Blend in and everyone will accept you unconditionally". There is going to be biggotry, bias, and hate. But, then, look at someone who is black. If a black male and a white female are coming out of a theater after a movie, they may also get jumped, mugged, or brutally pistol whipped for simply being together.

And it doesn't stop with race. There are people who live their life differently in countless ways that deal with misconceptions, prejudices, difficulties and whatever.

For any group to actively make a distinction about who they are is still pointing out to people how different they really might be and I still feel the best way for equality to happen is to celebrate the sames, not the differences.

Along those same lines, but not quite (only because I think celebrating differences is exactly where we should be striving to be in the quest for equality...it's just that most aren't evolved enough to "get it")... I would say if the purpose of rallies and such are to educate and build awareness, why would you ever want to alienate yourselves in the process? It seems to me that if anyone has a message they want to be heard, it's best not to deliver it in a way that's designed to make people uncomfortable. And that's just generally speaking.

When I want to help someone understand where I'm coming from, I try to understand where they are so I can shape my message in a way that can be understood. Meet your 'students' at their level so you have the chance to build their understanding and help raise their level to yours, kind of thing.

Lord Gonchar said:
There are people who live their life differently in countless ways that deal with misconceptions, prejudices, difficulties and whatever.

For any group to actively make a distinction about who they are is still pointing out to people how different they really might be and I still feel the best way for equality to happen is to celebrate the sames, not the differences.

Precisely why I don't make it known to everyone I meet that I'm a coaster enthusiast. :)

It took me nearly fifteen years to come out as an enthusiast. ;)

And the majority of the people here who say to act normal get annoyed with other enthusiasts who push it in everyone's face that they're enthusiasts. I have a lot of interests, but with any of them, I tend to avoid the people that live and die by that one thing. I have too much going on in life and too many interestes to spend all of my time talking about one aspect of my life, be it sexuality, roller coasters, Janet Jackon, Star Trek, Posting crappy photos to Flickr, food, Las Vegas, the Beach...

... and now I get pistol whipped every time I walk out of a Six Flags park....

BBSpeed26 said:

Gonch is spot on...

I though the same thing when I read his last few posts.

I'm totally 100% for gay marriage (legalized, full title, full rights, total equality) and just generally don’t see what all the fuss is over, or how people can be so vehemently opposed to something that literally has nothing to do with them personally.

A lot of people really do believe that it has everything to do with them, because most of the Christian leaders claim that horrible tragedies, such as the attacks on 9/11 for example, were "allowed" to happen by God because there are gay people in the US. That is such a very hurtful, hate filled idea to spread, and doesn't make any sense at all. That idea manifests itself into people coming to the conclusion that they are against gay marriage.

Religious leaders use this nasty tactic to keep control over the people of the nation by solidifying their personal beliefs by claiming that God agrees with them. I always wonder why our leaders (both religious and political), as well as some of those in the media, are always trying to force us to take sides, dividing us, as a nation.

Back in 2005, I enjoyed noting that four hurricanes struck the South that year, and that clearly God hated the Confederacy, only he was way behind from an immense backlog of destruction.

As a religious leader I completely agree. If God were really punishing us for homosexuality, why isn't San Francisco a smoking crater by now?

Oh believe me...San Francisco is smokin'! ;)

Dunno. Maybe he struck preemptively in 1906? Consider it a case of premature eradication. ;)

Lord Gonchar said:
For any group to actively make a distinction about who they are is still pointing out to people how different they really might be and I still feel the best way for equality to happen is to celebrate the sames, not the differences.

I completely disagree for two reasons:
1) Shouldn't we celebrate differences? Don't we value having different perspectives, different experiences, different traditions? Isn't a society stronger when it has many points of view instead of just one? Diversity should be a celebrated asset, not hidden.

2) In reality, the "sames" that we want to celebrate are almost always synonymous with "likenesses to the majority."

Maybe the fastest way to "equality" is to not point out differences, but if the "equality" requires minimizing important parts of your identity in order to not get singled out, it's not really equality at all (i.e. being accepted for who you are).

Ensign Smith said:
Dunno. Maybe he struck preemptively in 1906? Consider it a case of premature eradication. ;)

Thanks for that, Mike, now I have to explain why I laughed out loud when I was *supposed* to be working. ;)

ApolloAndy said:
Isn't a society stronger when it has many points of view instead of just one?

Depends on the definition of stronger in that context.

Different points of view, sure. But when it comes to any kind of action, the strongest groups are on the same page. You have to be on the same page to have any forward momentum.

...but if the "equality" requires minimizing important parts of your identity in order to not get singled out, it's not really equality at all (i.e. being accepted for who you are).

No, but as you started that sentence yourself (the part I left off the quote), it's probably the fastest way to equality.

It kind of goes back to what Carrie said - kinda, not entirely - but, find ways to relate so that those differences tend to not matter. If you run at someone telling them how you're different, how can you expect it not to be an issue?

Sorry, gator! ;)

Tekwardo said:

I'm the gayest straight guy around.

You haven't met gator yet, have you? ;)

/Foxxy Love voice:

I may not BE gay, but I'm vurrrry gay friendly. ;)

*Apologies to those who fail to watch Drawn Together - still the best cartoon reality show going...

Isn't Futurama going to be mad at you?

It seems like there are two modes of "gayness" (well, three if you count be closeted, but that's a different issue), and two kinds of social issues. For the modes, you have, "Hi, I'm gay," and you have, "Hey you! Look at me! I'm gay! GAY!" For the social issues, you have issues of bigotry and violence, and then you have equality issues (which are probably rooted in bigotry, but again, let's keep it simple).

Is there a one-to-one mapping between these? The "I'm GAY!" approach seems like a suitable level of activism for civil rights issues, but it doesn't strike me as something that solves anything in dealing with the countless morons who fear queer.

Regardless, the most compelling level of understanding, in my opinion, can be arrived at when you can get through to someone that being gay isn't about gay sex and trying to be different, it's about loving another human being just as any hetero would. I've seen many people "get it" when you put it in those terms.

...when you can get through to someone that being gay isn't about gay sex and trying to be different...

I think you said it better than I tried early on. When you start putting other labels on then it becomes less about your sexuality and more about who you are at the core.

I'll never forget meeting Moosh in 2005 with a friend in SoCal. The person I was with later asked me "Are you sure he's gay?" because the only 'experience' he'd had with someone who was out about being gay was someone who lived and breathed a supposed 'gay lifestyle'.

Then when he met Rob from Vegas and hung out with him talking at Moosh's house that Sunday, again I got "I'm not sure he's gay" until I pointed out that we'd met Rob's guy in Vegas.

Neither Moosh nor Rob are in the closet about their sexuality, but because they are regular people living regular lives, and he wasn't used to that because his only exposure was of the uber-queer varitety back home, he wasn't used to it.

He wasn't the type to be offended or against someone because of their sexuality at all, but the point is, I think it did more good for him in terms of 'acceptance' by being around other regular people who just happened to be gay because people tend to be accepting of people who have things in common with them.

In the end, he may or may not have agreed morally with someone being gay, I can't answer for him, but he also was in no way going to take away someone's rights by acting against them simply because of their sexuality, nor was he going to avoid them because of it.

I am not regular! ;)