Magic Mountain Gay Pride Night
Just because he's hiding certain curves doesn't mean they aren't there. ;)
Lord Gonchar said: (but what do I know, I like girls...curvy, soft girls...mmmmm)
Meh...no one is perfect (and I certainly don't mind) ;)
Tekwardo said:
O RLY?
You could say that's distucking! :)
I googled it, Moosh. I never saw it before, but now I am going to.
BTW, it's "Don't quit your gay job".
-Travis
www.youtube.com/TSVisits
I think that pic is a little more airbrushed than tucked ;).
Gonchar because if you remember the Civil Rights movement (or at least read about it), sometimes peaceful activities didnt work. Yes, they were quite popular and achieved quite a bit but once in a while you need to stand up and be noticed rather than just fade into the background. Of course there are creative (and sometimes humorous) ways to do this, but equality and acceptance is something that is seldom "just given". If you think it is, then I challenge you to read the cases of Plessy vs. Ferguson and the Dredd Scott Decision.
Coasterhound36 said:
Gonchar because if you remember the Civil Rights movement (or at least read about it), sometimes peaceful activities didnt work.
Ok.
So what's that have to do with what Bill was saying? He's saying (my interpretation) that no activity is necessary - just be yourself.
He doesn't necessarily openly identify as anything - at least not any more so than anyone in any group. He's just another person in the crowd doing his thing. That's pretty much the textbook definition of being socially accepted.
Be gay all you want and just be a useful, active and contributing member of society in general without drawing a distinction. If the distinction is the problem, then why would you go through the pageantry of creating that distinction if that same distinction is the very thing you're trying to erase.
(It's that endless loop thing that always makes my brain hurt)
Hence, my facetious comment about announcing to everyone in my community that I'm straight. It'd be ridiculous if I kept throwing it out there. It doesn't matter.
...but equality and acceptance is something that is seldom "just given".
Certainly not if you keep running around yelling, "Hey! I'm gay, get used to it!" at everyone. Hell, I'd want to punch you in the face after a while and I'm the gayest straight guy around.
Again, it sounds like a case of pointing out a difference and then when people take notice that there's a difference, whining that you have to point out the difference so that people learn to accept it when if you hadn't drawn attention to it in the first place, there'd be no major issue.
(brain hurt loop again)
But I digress. It kinda all comes down to this:
...once in a while you need to stand up and be noticed rather than just fade into the background.
Being able to blend in is, to me, the very definition of social acceptance. What more can a person ask for other than to generally fit in?
I'm the gayest straight guy around.
You haven't met gator yet, have you? ;)
^^
Gonch is spot on, that's exactly what I was getting at. I should note that I'm not gay, but have grown up my whole life with a (totally awesome) uncle (who happens to be gay) and an extremely forward thinking family. As a rule, I’ve noticed that I put a lot of weight in how people feel towards gay rights/gay marriage because I think your stance on the issues can be very revealing about what kind of person you are, male or female, straight or gay. I'm totally 100% for gay marriage (legalized, full title, full rights, total equality) and just generally don’t see what all the fuss is over, or how people can be so vehemently opposed to something that literally has nothing to do with them personally. Plus, my aforementioned uncle’s experiences (his partner of probably ~40+ years died, and because they weren’t legally married, the legal attitude towards him was basically ‘buck up and move on’, without going into too much detail) just highlight how absurd it is to deny gays what in my opinion are basic human rights, just because they don’t fit the mold you want, or because someone wrote a few lines in a book a few thousand years ago.
I didn't feel like mentioning my sexuality it in the first post because I thought my insight was good and that my opinion was worth sharing, regardless of whether or not I'm actually gay myself, and didn't want the post interpreted through a needlessly slanted 'oh you're not gay, you don't get it' lens. Glad it resonated with at least a few people.
Bill
ಠ_ಠ
Lord Gonchar said: Being able to blend in is, to me, the very definition of social acceptance. What more can a person ask for other than to generally fit in?
The thing is, sometimes in order to "blend in" you have to hide your true nature. In my opinion that's not social acceptance, that's surviving at all costs.
bbspeed said: I'm totally 100% for gay marriage
As am I, but I also think this is a fight that needs to be done in baby steps (and it isn't). Get the rights first and call it a civil union. Then, in a decade or so when people realize gay unions aren't sending the good ol' US-of-A to hell in a handbasket it'll be easier to convince people to take the next step: marriage.
But my opinion may not be a popular one.
It makes sense to me, but I can see how others might disagree. A civil union with all the proper rights is an excellent starting point, and I mean really, if you've got a civil union with your partner, would anyone really be so particular as to say "Hi, this is my partner John, and we just got marri-... er... civil uninion...ized." Of course not, you'd say married and then after a few years when *gasp* the jaws of hell *didn't* open up and swallow the country whole, we could finally beat back enough intolerants to legally call it marriage too.
That said, I can see how forcing a distinction between civil union and marriage could be insulting and segregationist, so I understand (and support) the push to get the rights and the title in one fell swoop.
Bill
ಠ_ಠ
Lord Gonchar said:
If the distinction is the problem, then why would you go through the pageantry of creating that distinction if that same distinction is the very thing you're trying to erase.
I'm not advocating for "be gay and rub everyone's face in it" but I also think that there is a distinction that exists naturally rather which is not created by the gay community. The distinction of prejudice from bigots (or just plain ignorance about existence of gays - I had a colleague in a meeting say, "I just don't think there are any gays in this area" when the only other person in the meeting besides me was gay) as well as the distinction of loneliness for closeted or fearful gays. Being up in other people's face doesn't help any of those issues, but Gay Pride Days, rallys, and marches can build solidarity and identity within the gay community and awareness outside. Maybe you won't change the prejudice, but I'm not sure God Himself could change that.
Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."
Two thoughts:
1. Seperate is NEVER equal. I use to think that civil unions would suffice, but the more I looked into the history of marriage and the true meaning of it, civil unions just don't jive. Call is civil marriage if you want, notating that it is state sanctioned versus religious if that is the core issue.
2. It is easy for everyone to say things like just blend in and society will accept you but I dare say none of you have been jumped, mugged or brutally pistol whipped for the simple act of walking into or coming out of a gay bar. So no matter how hard any member of the LGBT community tries to just go about their "blending in life" there are still parts of society who have so much hate towards anyone different that they seek to act out violently, often with deadly results. I have experienced all of the above with friends of mine, none of whom you would ever know were gay (ie. they were blending in), and were attacked by people who were specifically targeting LGBT people/places to insill fear in the community. Very Taliban-ish, no?!?
It is easy for everyone to say things like just blend in and society will accept you but I dare say none of you have been jumped, mugged or brutally pistol whipped for the simple act of walking into or coming out of a gay bar.
I don't think anyone is saying 'Blend in and everyone will accept you unconditionally". There is going to be biggotry, bias, and hate. But, then, look at someone who is black. If a black male and a white female are coming out of a theater after a movie, they may also get jumped, mugged, or brutally pistol whipped for simply being together.
None of us are excusing that kind of hate, but seriously, me as a single white male could get jumped, mugged, or brutally pistol whipped for plenty of reasons.
Stuff happens. Some people 'blame' the terrible things they do on race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, or something else stupid. That doesn't excuse it, but it also doesn't give someone the right to spout "I want equal rights, but I want to act totally different than everyone and claim that it's because of my race, religion, sex, sexual orientation!"
The thing is, sometimes in order to "blend in" you have to hide your true nature. In my opinion that's not social acceptance, that's surviving at all costs.
And to me, that's kind of where the line is. Regardless of how I may feel about another person's sexuality, race, religion, etc., if I see something that is socially acceptable like holding hands, going into or out of a place of entertainment, etc., I don't have the right to anything but my opinion. I don't have the right to take someone else's rights away.
Granted, if someone is walking down the street with a bullhorn shouting that I'm going to Hell, or walking around in full drag demanding that I accept them, or even holding a rally and yelling that I MUST accept them because of the color of their skin, they have the right to do and feel that way, but it's less likely that they'll be accepted by the masses.
Regardless, voilence against anyone for any reason isn't acceptable and is taking away someone's basic rights, but there are no guarantees that even if you're a blond haired, blue eyed, straight, 'All American' boy and girl that you won't have someone violently attack you.
I get the survival at all costs comment, because sadly someone may be more willing to act violently towards someone that they see as different who isn't 'fitting in' according to their standards. I think the poing Gonch was trying to make was if you don't make a scene and just act 'normal' (i.e., holding hands or something would be okay, but making out and showing off is a little less than normal for straights or gays), then that should do more better for you in the long run.
It doesn't guarantee that you won't be the victim of some violence, but nothign guarantees that.
Granted, this is coming from someone who hasn't ever been physically attacked after a show of affection for someone of any gender/race/color/etc.
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