Magic Mountain Gay Pride Night

BDesvignes-

Jeff (and birdhombre) covered it pretty well, but I wasn't implying you carry signs or denounce people or whatnot. I don't know you, and frankly, I don't care what you do in your spare time. My point was that there are many, many segments of Christianity with various degrees of differing viewpoints. Some believe that being gay is okay. That suddenly makes them not Christian? Even though the essence of Christianity is a believe in Christ and his teachings?

Maybe the other side thinks you're not Christian because of your beliefs. Ever consider that?

Or is it just "I'm right and everyone else is wrong?"

-Nate

BDesvignes said: What exactly am I jealous of?

Our fabulousness, of course!

Isn't the belief that your particular set of beliefs the *right* way and everything else (by virtue of varying from those guidelines) is "wrong"....the very definition of Religious Fundamentalism?

Since we're already defining terms and all.... :)

"Christian" has taken on such a negative connotation over the years, I think it's nice to point out every once in awhile that not all who wear the label are judgemental and hate-mongering. But the Fred Phelpses of the world do get more press, God love 'em... ;)

edit: Almost forgot that last (critically-important) winkie... :)

^Ah yes, gaotor! The winkie ;) love it!

Now we need a *BIG COLLECTIVE GROUP HUG*

(adds... 'they just don't know any better')

We are really hurting each other, just disagreeing ;)

This has to be the most intelligent and relevant discussion on this particular topic that has ever taken place, even off of the internet. I've been learning a lot. Thanks.

CoasterDemon said:
Now we need a *BIG COLLECTIVE GROUP HUG*

Careful... Considering some of us participating in this thread, that hug might be considered a "gay act"! :)

Mamoosh said:

BDesvignes said: What exactly am I jealous of?

Our fabulousness, of course!

Well I am a bad dresser.

^^Nahh... Sometimes I think (after many hours of therapy) that I am comfortable enough with my masculinity, that if I were heterosexual, I would still love to hug my friends.

Not all of us homosexuals have 'partners' (boyfriend, etc.) at home and think its OK to flirt with others (online, in person, what have you). Guess I'm more of a 'conservative' gay. O boy, whats a more appropriate word than conservative?

BDesvignes said:

Mamoosh said:

BDesvignes said: What exactly am I jealous of?

Our fabulousness, of course!

Well I am a bad dresser.

Me too, apparently. But I do have "cool" tee shirts ;)

BDesvignes said:
When I say god loves everyone I don't mean people can do what they want and ignore his teachings which is what many people do.

Sorry I didn't specify the differnce between being gay and performing the act. I was equating the two as being the same which is incorrect. What I am saying is don't try and change the religion to allow for what you want to do.

So the Bible says this about the homosexual act:

In the King James Version, Leviticus 18:22 is translated: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

I get it but if everything is to be taken as a Christian lifestyle then you have to follow all of it, not just what is convient right?

So just before that the good old book of Leviticus has some pretty stern guidelines for women that are menstruating:

"Leviticus 15:19-30 - And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean."

So do you guys have a special place set up for women that get their monthly gift? They need to be separated for 7 days. You don't? So it's ok to pick and chose what you want from The Book cafeteria style then. Sweet! Ok I'm going to stick with the seperating women thing because the book says they're unclean and need to be put in a special place for 7 days, but I'll pass on the man layeth with a man thing because I like to cuddle with the boyfriend. :)

And don't forget, different words in the bible had different meanings back in ancient times, such as abomination, which anti-LGBT groups/people love to use against the LGBT community. Abomination back then had more to do with unclean or unnatural versus our translation today.

This is lengthy but it is circulating online in various LGBT oriented sites and it really hits on the hypocrisy of religion in our country and those who "selectively" use the bible to feed their agenda:

In her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus, Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

(It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian :)

CoasterDemon said:
O boy, whats a more appropriate word than conservative?

Maybe you could use something on the scale of flames. I've met some flamers who'd qualify as radioactive, whilst I'm probably more of a hot coal. I guess that means I'm good for roasting marshmallows.

Anyone want s'more? :)

I never knew asking a simple question would foment such a spirited and tenacious debate. Its been intriguing to see all the varying viewpoints and ideologies (including the ones with which I dont agree). And may I point that I heard years ago that the Bible has about 27 admonishments for gay people and about 673 for straight people! I guess in some ways being a minority is NOT a bad thing!! =)

mlnem4s, I love that letter. Sad how people pick and choose passages that support their bigotry.

Especially when Jesus himself never talked about homosexuality (at least as recorded in the 4 gospels) but he himself talked a lot about divorce, infidelity, and greed.

To play devil's advocate, I can see the biblical perspective for being against homosexuality, even if it's not a choice. There are a lot of things which are natural and that I don't choose but are still probably wrong (i.e. the desire to kill someone who makes fun of me or the desire to sleep with every good looking woman I run across). Just because the desire is not a choice, doesn't mean the resultant action is "okay."
(Note: I don't believe that argument necessarily applies to homosexuality, but it is an argument that can be made.)

What I can't see is the focus on homosexuality as being more important or worse than any other sin and the implication that heterosexuals or orientation independent practices like greed, lust, and bigotry are less responsible for <God's wrath/the downfall or society/decline of church/natural disasters/whatever>. To me that makes no sense at all. You don't think God is more mad that most of our churches are single race and single class or that most of them care more about their influence and their power (or at least their attendance) than helping the community?

ApolloAndy said:
Especially when Jesus himself never talked about homosexuality (at least as recorded in the 4 gospels) but he himself talked a lot about divorce, infidelity, and greed.

Just because Jesus himself didn't speak about it doesn't mean it is wrong or right. The bible still prohibits it. Also, the frequency of topics in the bible doesn't mean it's level of importance like a normal man made book today would.

ApolloAndy said:

To play devil's advocate, I can see the biblical perspective for being against homosexuality, even if it's not a choice. There are a lot of things which are natural and that I don't choose but are still probably wrong (i.e. the desire to kill someone who makes fun of me or the desire to sleep with every good looking woman I run across). Just because the desire is not a choice, doesn't mean the resultant action is "okay."
(Note: I don't believe that argument necessarily applies to homosexuality, but it is an argument that can be made.)

I agree with what you say here except for it not applying to homosexual acts.

ApolloAndy said:

What I can't see is the focus on homosexuality as being more important or worse than any other sin and the implication that heterosexuals or orientation independent practices like greed, lust, and bigotry are less responsible for <God's wrath/the downfall or society/decline of church/natural disasters/whatever>. To me that makes no sense at all. You don't think God is more mad that most of our churches are single race and single class or that most of them care more about their influence and their power (or at least their attendance) than helping the community?

I agree that sins are equal and there isn't one that is worse than the other in God's eyes. You won't get to the pearly gates and get a slap on the wrist for stealing because you idn't murder someone. The punishment is still the same.

Cropsey said:

BDesvignes said:
When I say god loves everyone I don't mean people can do what they want and ignore his teachings which is what many people do.

Sorry I didn't specify the differnce between being gay and performing the act. I was equating the two as being the same which is incorrect. What I am saying is don't try and change the religion to allow for what you want to do.

So the Bible says this about the homosexual act:

In the King James Version, Leviticus 18:22 is translated: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

I get it but if everything is to be taken as a Christian lifestyle then you have to follow all of it, not just what is convient right?

So just before that the good old book of Leviticus has some pretty stern guidelines for women that are menstruating:

"Leviticus 15:19-30 - And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean."

So do you guys have a special place set up for women that get their monthly gift? They need to be separated for 7 days. You don't? So it's ok to pick and chose what you want from The Book cafeteria style then. Sweet! Ok I'm going to stick with the seperating women thing because the book says they're unclean and need to be put in a special place for 7 days, but I'll pass on the man layeth with a man thing because I like to cuddle with the boyfriend. :)

Leviticus is God's covenant with Israel and doesn't apply to Christians. The Law Of Moses went out of force when Jesus died on the Cross. However, in Genesis 2:22-24 it's clear that God intended for man to be with woman.

And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Romans 1:26-27 also makes it clear that homosexual acts are prohibited.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

The bible also says not to judge others, and Jesus said himself "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone". So, I'm not trying to judge anyone or tell them what they should and shouldn't do, and i don't agree with the actions of those groups that are so against homosexuality.

I'm not trying to say whether the bible is right or wrong or that people should believe it. My only problem is when people twist it to mean what they want and change what it is. If you don't believe it for what it is then don't try and change it just find something else that you agree with. Also, I only speak about the bible since I've read it. I don't have any experience with other religions so I can't speak to what they believe.

BDesvignes said: My only problem is when people twist it to mean what they want and change what it is.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

I liked this thread better before it went all Old Testament on us. I feel like Samuel L. Jackson is going to pop out any second and fill us collectively full of holes. ;)