Kings Island Fast Lane

No snarkyness taken. I enjoy the discussion. CoasterBuzz would be a really boring place if we all had the same opinions. :)

I was there yesterday (first visit to KI in about 20 years). I rode 3 of the Fast Pass rides during the 7 hour window. Beast had about a 20-30 minute standby wait during the mid afternoon. There was a trickle of Fast Pass riders but I don't think they amounted to more than a train during a standby wait for a ride.

Mid to late afternoon, Diamondback had about a 45 minute wait for standby line. Saw maybe 1-2 trains of Fast Pass folks (many of whom were multiple riders). Between 6-7 pm, Firehawk standby line was about 45 minutes. There was heavier Fast pass traffic at this point. I would say it was 3-4 trains of Fast Pass folks during my wait.

Most people didn't seem to notice the Fast Pass people. There were a few who were looking at them wondering why they were going to the front of the line.

I thought about getting a Fast Pass but when we got there, Diamondback and Firehawk weren't running (neither was Vortex). And the weather was iffy as well. All rides were closed for an hour or two during the early part of the Fast Pass period. Though based on lines during the Fast Pass period, I probably will get Fast Pass next time I visit.

This morning, I rode Diamondback 6 times between 9:30 and 10:30. Beast was a walk on through at least 11:30. Diamondback was still only about a 20 minute standby wait at about 1 this afternoon. Advantage of Fast Pass today started off less than it was yesterday but crowds were increasing during the late morning/early afternoon so that may have changed. We left a little after one to head back to Cleveland.

Stopped by Racer about noon. Coasters for Kids train was running with one person on it who got off next stop. Train was stopped in the station during the ride or two that I waited. Didn't see anyone collecting donations.

I concur with GoBucks trip report - I was there too (Sunday) and experienced the same issues - lack of a need for the FOL access . I left after 1pm - and got all the riding in I wanted without the need to spend on this. It was a little hot, but then again... This is peak operating time of the year.

I think they need a rethink/reprice on this one.

$49.99!

That seriously might work better than $50.

The folks at KICentral have been discussing this to death as well, and so far it has been 100% in line with what GoBucks reported...no noticeable significant effect at times when it was in use.

OhioStater said:
The folks at KICentral have been discussing this to death as well, and so far it has been 100% in line with what GoBucks reported...no noticeable significant effect at times when it was in use.

Surprise!

No, wait. It's not.

Some of us* have been saying for years the effect is minimal at best.

*By 'some of us' I mean 'me' :)

And me, though I've really just been on the Gonch/VQ bandwagon. Interesting enough, I paid $50 to get to the front of the line to get on that bandwagon.

If the wagon is for the band, shouldn't musicians get in free? Heck, if anything we should be *paid* for our services.

No one gets on the wagon for free!

Even better for them to offer it on days when the park is slow! If you can get people to willingly pay $50 extra each, and not really effect anybody. That's pure gravy money!

What if you have your own instrument?

Anyone else familiar with Marilyn vos Savant?

Pretty much, her claim to fame is having been listed one time by Guinness for having the world's highest IQ. (If you want to know more about her, follow the link - the gist is that she's a pretty bright woman)

She has a weekly column in the Parade insert in the Sunday newspaper that I often skim because I have nothing better to do with my time. This week's question made me think of this thread immediately. (Go give it a look)

I've talked about the random nature of the day at the park and wondered why everyone seemed to be so ok with it while blasting VQ/FOL as inequality or not fair or what not. In her opening line this week she sums up what I've been indirectly saying since the beginning of the VQ debate:

The term “random” is not synonymous with “fair.”

Exactly. Thank you, Marilyn. The random nature of a day at the park isn't necessarily 'fair' - it's just random. You roll with it and play the hand you're dealt.

Her solution for a 'fair' resolution to the issue the reader wrote in about?

"Here’s a more equitable solution: All three siblings would bid against each other for the privilege ..."

Her solution to fairly resolve the resolution - cold, hard cash. Which is then divided by the the 'losing' bidders.

Brilliant.

And before someone gets all smart-ass on me and goes, then the park should give us the money that the VQ'ers pay to use the system...they do. In the form of the reduced admission.

In a similar fashion to the column's dilemma, we all want the same thing. (on the ride as quickly as possible)

The high bidder gets the 'desireable quality' (in this case VQ/FOL access) and the rest get the payback and similar items (they ride the ride for $50 less at a slightly increased wait time).

At least that's how it makes sense to me. As I read it I immediately connected the parallels.

At the very least the opening line should resonante loudly - "Random" doesn't mean "fair."

A day at the park, by its inherent random nature, isn't fair to begin with.

Preach Brother Gonch!

Lord Gonchar said:

And before someone gets all smart-ass on me and goes, then the park should give us the money that the VQ'ers pay to use the system...they do. In the form of the reduced admission.

That only works in a perfect economic model. In reality, there are usually few enough competing amusement parks that parks may (and, I would posit, frequently do) simply hold on to the extra profit.

It's a bit similar to the airlines, who just over the weekend had their taxes canceled by default by a bungling Congress. Instead of giving consumers a break, they pretty much acted in lock step to raise their fares to match what fliers would have had to pay anyway.

A day at the park, by its inherent random nature, isn't fair to begin with.

No, but there is a difference in the quality of fairness. Some unfair things -- weather, mechanical breakdowns, and the like -- are random and unarbitrary. They are beyond the control of people and largely apply to everyone at the park equally. Other unfair things are non-random and arbitrary, upcharge Fast Pass and Lo-Q being prime examples.

That's well thought out. Gonch, until you realize that the price to attend an amusement park has been going up, not down.

I read that Kings Island just raised the parking fee a few days ago.

The people not VQing, or not cutting in line in this case, are not saving any money, because the regular price never went down. If a businesses main function is to make money, it wouldn't make sense to lower the admission price if a profitable new product was just introduced.

This topic is so very complicated, there could be an entire book written on the subject of pay-to-cut. :)

Ensign Smith said:
No, but there is a difference in the quality of fairness. Some unfair things -- weather, mechanical breakdowns, and the like -- are random and unarbitrary. They are beyond the control of people and largely apply to everyone at the park equally. Other unfair things are non-random and arbitrary, upcharge Fast Pass and Lo-Q being prime examples.

But that's exactly the point - just because it's beyond anyone's control doesn't make it fair. It just makes it random.

And the more twisted among us ( :) ) might argue that VQ creates a level of equality by removing or negating as many of those random and unarbitrary things as possible and, in turn, creates equality and fairness among those who use the VQ system.

For those that don't use it, your day is no more or less unfair than before - you're still at the whim of the procession of random events that occur throughout the day - it's just that another variable (VQ) has been added. And the chance of how you're affected by that is as random as anything else - as evidence by the reports above that the effect was zero for many people this past weekend.

LostKause said:
That's well thought out. Gonch, until you realize that the price to attend an amusement park has been going up, not down.

The correct response is that they didnt go up as much as they would have or could have. Whether that's true or not is debateable. (see Ensign Smith's 'perfect ecomony' thing)

However, the parks are in this for money. They are not a neutral party. So yeah, there has to be something in it for them.

So I don't see the 'reduced admission' as a literal concept as much as a figurative one - in that you're paying $50 admission as opposed to $100 (admission and VQ). Your payback is the additional $50 in your pocket compared to a VQ buyer.

So, essentially, the park is dividing the customer base into two tiers. The upper tier (admission and VQ) gets a better deal. How then is it possible to deny that the lower tier (admission only) gets a correspondingly worse deal?

Put it this way. At any given park, there is a finite capacity for the number of rides that may be taken by customers in a given day. Assuming rides are running at full capacity, any extra rides awarded to VQ-users must come at the expense of the remaining customers, who collectively will have their total rides reduced to compensate.

Now, maybe this is just "another variable that's been added". And if parks employ it sparingly, as is perhaps the case with KI, the effect may be neglible to the point of not being noticeable. But even in these circumstances the effect is still very real. And if parks choose to not be so enlightened in their use of this profit-increasing model, the effect can become very palpable.

It's not magic. You can't borrow from Paul to pay Peter. It's a closed system.

Edit: it would've made much better sense if I'd said, "You have to borrow from Paul to pay Peter", or something like that.

But as already noted, they are taking a little from a large number of people and giving a lot to a small number of people. From what I saw, it was about 5 mins per hour or about 35 mins from guests in those 10 lines which amounts to about one lost ride per day. Many folks may not care (or even notice). Others may get upset and buy the Fast Line pass next time. Or maybe they don't visit the park any more (or as often).

Kings Island will need to be careful with pricing and availability to minimize the negative impacts on its profits. But its the same analysis that parks go through (as do all other businesses) with respect to any pricing/service level decisions.

GoBucks89 said:
But as already noted, they are taking a little from a large number of people and giving a lot to a small number of people.

Ah, that's why I'm so instinctively opposed to the practice. It's an inherently Republican idea... ;)