Kings Island Fast Lane

Ah, I know someone's already reported on it, but I've hardly noticed ANY change at all since they've put this into effect. I'm a Gold Pass holder and I go 2-3 times a week. The lines seem pretty much the same to me, maybe a bit longer. Definitely nothing that bothers me too much, since I actually don't mind a little wait and anticipation before a coaster. I don't really see people who rarely go to Kings Island thinking much of it, either. Unless you pick a perfect day to go, you're probably going to wait for some things.

I've actually yet to see any FL Riders GET ON while I was in the queue line, but I may have just missed them or something like that. All I know is I don't really care whether or not a few people get in front of me. I've already gone more than enough times to pay for my pass. If someone really sees a problem in it, it's sad.

I know it's a really "lame" comparison to make, but it's just like an online game or something like that. They're usually free, but for the perks you have to pay more. It isn't necessarily unfair, saying as those people who get the perks actually paid for them. Sure, they may advance quicker than others, but again... they paid.

Ensign Smith said:
It's not magic. You can't borrow from Paul to pay Peter. It's a closed system.

Yeah, exactly. This has been discussed countless times (even in this thread), but I'll toss it out there again.

The park is making a conscious decision to make a certain percentage of the park much happier while not doing enough damage at the other end to affect things negatively. (or at least that's the goal)

Tekwardo said:
Instead of 'taking away from one to give to the other', since this is a luxury, it's more like 'giving someone better access because they paid for it, while giving basic access to someone who chose not to pay for it'.

Yeah, pretty much. Once VQ/FOL is implemented, is the admission ticket buying you something different?

Sure. Marginally so.

But the model has changed. It's a new game.

P.S. as to the 'customer pays admission for...' comments, that's not really true. Customers pay admission to enter the park and have all of the park's available offerings available to them. Any number of things could happen that could keep you from seeing any or all of the attractions at a park.

And this is a key point to me too. Admission to the park guarantees you dick. (other than a day in the park) I'm sure there are unspoken reasonable expectations, but I'd say adding VQ/FOL (in all the various forms I've seen) still puts what you're buying with park admission entirely within the definition of what to reasonably expect.

I mean, there's a million ways to slice it - and I think we've managed to do them all. :)

One of the biggest reasons that the "standby" park patrons should be OK with any sort of virtual queuing is the simple fact that park crowds fluctuate on a daily basis. There is no way to tell what a crowd is going to be like before entering the park first thing in the morning usually. You pay the gate price and then enter the park essentially blind to what your waits are going to be like for the day.

Let's say the park is slammed and you have to wait close to an hour for each of the attractions and no one uses any front-of-line access. But then you go another day and there are very mild crowds and, even with people utilizing front-of-line privileges, you only wait 20 minutes per ride. Were you somehow more wronged on that second day than the first?

I hear you guys say it all of the time, and every time you say it I disagree, but never argue... Admission to the park does guarantee rides, attractions, and shows, because the way I see it, if it didn't, why would anyone go.

Most POP amusement parks even say so on their websites and near the front gates. The wording is almost the same for all of them too, "Admission to (insert park name here) includes access to all rides, shows, and attractions, except for (add up-charge ride here, add another up-charge attraction here) and (add last up-charge attraction here)."

Unless you want to say that the word "guarantee" is too strong of a word to use (which I would somewhat agree with because of circumstances beyond a parks control), I just don't get that side of the argument.

As far as varying wait times on any given day go, just because that is a factor that determines wait time, why should it be made worse with even another factor?

And, when a park is extra busy, why should it be okay to make the lines even longer by offering VQ or pay-to-cut?

I like to offer my perfect "front of the line access" system. Maybe I'll patent it and make billions. Everyone in the park must carry their park ticket in their pocket or somewhere else on their person at all time while in the park. Every ticket has an RFID imbedded into it. Those who decide to rent the Q-Bot type device can only use it at one attraction that offers front-of-the-line access at a time. They can not queue for another ride while waiting for their ride time for a VQed ride. Every ride line is linked into the central queue management computer, and access to all rides is determined by whether or not one is already VQed for another ride or not.

Guests are told if they are allowed to get in line while they walk through the pass gate, at the entrance of each ride. The gate automatically scans each RFID that passes through it, access the ID number in the central computer, and grants or denies permission to enter the line. A ride host is there to make sure guests are following directions.

Big plus... The RFID data can be tracked all over the park, giving the park data on each and every guest, along with traffic patterns throughout each day.

Yes it's creepy, but it's necessary to fairly offer VQ, in my opinion.

LostKause said:
"Admission to (insert park name here) includes access to all rides, shows, and attractions

Unless you want to say that the word "guarantee" is too strong of a word to use

Right. 'Guarantee' =/= 'include'.

Admission to the park does guarantee rides, attractions, and shows, because the way I see it, if it didn't, why would anyone go.

And while I know it's anecdotal and is of course far from the norm, my two brothers, a mutual friend of ours, and all our wives have gone to Kings Dominion on several occasions. Our mutual friend's wife does not ride anything, and really does little more than walk around the park all day with us and wait for us while we go on rides. Yet she's the one who usually brings up the idea to go in the first place. Strange? Yeah, a little. But it happens.

-Edited to add quotes, due to the recent abundance of double- and triple-posting.

LostKause said:
Most POP amusement parks even say so on their websites and near the front gates. The wording is almost the same for all of them too, "Admission to (insert park name here) includes access to all rides, shows, and attractions, except for (add up-charge ride here, add another up-charge attraction here) and (add last up-charge attraction here)."

Great. But it doesn't guarantee you dick. You're allowed access to the crap in the park. Have at it. Allowing other to VQ/FOL their day doesn't change any of that.

As far as varying wait times on any given day go, just because that is a factor that determines wait time, why should it be made worse with even another factor?

Because it's being made better for a segment of customers and making the park a nice chunk of change in the process.

...and it's not being made worse in any significant way. (usually)

Yes it's creepy, but it's necessary to fairly offer VQ, in my opinion.

Luckily, you don't run a large park chain. ;)

You're distain for these systems is based on concepts of 'fairness' that exist pretty much only in your mind.

There's nothing unfair about a business giving people more when they pay more. It'd be unfair if they didn't.

Vater, the KI website mentions that circumstance...

Do you offer a non-rider ticket discount?

Kings Island does not offer a non-rider discount. Kings Island has a one-price admission as it is a multi-faceted park, not just a ride park. Live entertainment abounds at the park wtih six fun-filled shows and roving characters and performers. The park also offers a variety of gift shops, restaurants, a 15-acre water park and much more.

So the park is giving reasonable permission to ride all the rides, see all the shows, and visit all of the attractions that one can do in a day, and realizes that everyone will have different interests in what they want to do while there.

Purchasing an admission ticket may not "guarantee" anything is included, but the park is expected to offer the advertised things to do as part of the deal, as best as they can, with only the exception of things that are beyond their control, like a chain breaking on a roller coaster, for example.

LostKause said:
Purchasing an admission ticket may not "guarantee" anything is included, but the park is expected to offer the advertised things to do as part of the deal, as best as they can, with only the exception of things that are beyond their control, like a chain breaking on a roller coaster, for example.

Yeah and I posted to that effect a few posts up this page:

Admission to the park guarantees you dick. (other than a day in the park) I'm sure there are unspoken reasonable expectations, but I'd say adding VQ/FOL (in all the various forms I've seen) still puts what you're buying with park admission entirely within the definition of what to reasonably expect.

It's not the park that's being unreasonable here.

If we're bringing logic into the discussion, its seems illogical to me for people to expect all consumers to react the same way. People go to parks for various reasons and there are some insane analogies being brought up in this and other threads that try to convince people that VQ systems should seem "fair" to them.

I'd be shocked to learn that parks who implemented these systems did not expect to hear some negative reaction from a segment of their customer base. I'm just as shocked that 10 years later people are trying to get every part of that base to happily accept the system.

Gonch said above that its a new model and a new game. Some people like the old game better. That shouldn't be a surprise.

Admission to (insert park name here) includes access to all rides, shows, and attractions, except for (add up-charge ride here, add another up-charge attraction here) and (add last up-charge attraction here).

Even if you don't agree with VQ or FOL, etc, you still have access to those rides, just not as often as someone paying the VQ or FOL fees.

I'm guessing the people who would be primarily upset about Differently Queued™ riders (is that the politically correct term? ;)) are groups of 3 or more who want to get on the same train, go to the trouble of comparing queues and counting people and letting folks go ahead of them so they'll line up... only to have a DQ come gliding into the station and throwing their grand plans out of whack. I've seen that happen with parent swap and handicap access riders. I've been on both sides of that, doing parent swap with a friend (complete with disappointed groans from the Plebeian Queue), and being in a group of 4 who had to ride separate trains and wait for each other at the exit. But people seem to get over it, 'cuz hey, rollie coasters.

Except the time when I was next in line for Dragster and had to wait an additional train, only to have the ride break down. That wasn't quite as fun. But even that was so uneventful I can't recall if I left or continued to wait.

I still maintain that lines for rides today are no longer (or shorter) on any given day than they were before VQ existed. I remember waiting for eons sometimes back in the 70s and 80s. I also remember, on certain days, having little to no waits. It's the same today...what's the big deal?

I remember the long lines in the 70s and 80s (and for rides that are walk ups pretty much every day now). But we also walked uphill both ways against the wind in the snow to school so it wasn't that big of a deal. What do the youngsters know anyways.

Uncle Coaster said:
Gonch said above that its a new model and a new game. Some people like the old game better. That shouldn't be a surprise.

No, but it's an excercise in futility.

And how long are you allowed to wonk about the new reality before it gets weird? I think 10 years has been a good grace period. :)

Based on complaints about food/drink prices, I don't think the grace period has expired.

You know, Vater brings up a good point. I recall waiting 3 hours to ride Magnum, and no one whined. Now people are calling "unfair" when an extra 10 minutes tops might be added to their day in one or two particular lines (that are probably only 45 minutes to an hour tops today).

Fair or unfair, so far people who have actually experienced it live have stated that it has done nothing, and is barely noticeable.

Travis, have you ever been to Waldameer? Their new (as of last year) queue entry system would dovetail perfectly with your VQ idea, and it doesn't use RFIDs.

Intrigued, I am. Investigate, I will. :p

Guests are told if they are allowed to get in line while they walk through the pass gate, at the entrance of each ride. The gate automatically scans each RFID that passes through it, access the ID number in the central computer, and grants or denies permission to enter the line. A ride host is there to make sure guests are following directions.

Big plus... The RFID data can be tracked all over the park, giving the park data on each and every guest, along with traffic patterns throughout each day.

You should've patented that sooner. That sounds exactly like how it works at Morey's, except it's a wristband with a bar code instead of RFID.

"Admission to (insert park name here) includes access to all rides, shows, and attractions, except for (add up-charge ride here, add another up-charge attraction here) and (add last up-charge attraction here)."

Also wanted to add that this is entirely correct in either scenario. Your admission DOES include (and I'd even say guarantee) access to all rides, etc. What it does not include is unlimited access. No one is being turned away. Everyone still has access to everything.