Intamin & CP
For the last time, footers for TTD being poored before WT and Xcel even opened is proof enough.
You keep saying that you've presented all this evidence, but that's the best you can come up with.
How about I use some real quotes for you:
"Initial discussions for this coaster actually began about three years ago, as soon as Cedar Point opened Millennium Force" - Rob Decker
If there was an existing contract, wouldn't they have already had the "initial discussions?"
"Our biggest challenge on Top Thrill Dragster was to put up the steel as soon as possible so winter didn't delay the project." - Monty Jasper
Gee, that couldn't be the reason to do the foundation work before the park opened in 2002, could it? Perhaps they did that early work because they knew it was not the type of work they could do during the season and they knew they would be under a tight deadline to get the steel up? No, that's too far-fetched.
"I am not aware of any contracts. Cedar Point is unique because we have our own planning and design division, plus a planning committee. We know 5 years in advance what we are going to build. We look at what other park are building, talk to guests, visit manufactures to determine what our guests want us to build. When you spend $10-15 million on a new attraction, you better get it right the first time." - Stephen Norton, (former) Cedar Point public relations representative when asked on June 25, 1995 if Cedar Point had a coaster contract with B&M.
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Walt Schmidt - Virtual Midway
*** This post was edited by Gemini 8/12/2003 10:54:05 AM ***
IOArules: Why do you keep coming back to what I said about the ride? What does that have to do with anything and how does it support your case? I said a lot of things about the ride that I knew it wasn't, before I was sure what it actually was. The thing about a revolving restaurant nearly made the local paper.
And you best watch your attitude. I don't really appreciate you calling our members fat. The hammer is waiting for you.
Note Walt's last post... exactly the points I made only he actually attributed them.
I hope you never have to debate for a grade, because you really suck at it.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?
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I regret to inform you that Cedar Point's newest roller coaster, Top Thrill Dragster will not be operational today, or tomorrow or probably any day that you decide to visit our park. Please accept our apologies.
EDIT(thanks MAnderson):
As to IOArules, again, I'll bring up rules in a court of law. In court, it is the Planitff's responsibility to Prove their cause. If a Plantiff in a criminal casecan prove beyond a resonable doubt that what they are saying is true, they have won the case. There is no "The defendant still hasen't proven their case, so they have to go to jail". Even though you are innocent until proven guilty, it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty, otherwise, defendant is charged.
In a Civil case, the only difference is that you have to prove to the majority that you are telling the truth. Still, it rests with the Planitff to PROVE (not speculate) that they are right. If they can not PROVE they are right, they lose the case.
In your argument, you have not proven that you are correct beyond a reasonable doubt to anyone here.
You also haven't done a good job in bringing the majority to your side either, infact the more people that read your posts, the more there are to disagree. You haven't proven anything, and since the responsibility is up to you to prove it, then you prove OUR case. That is how law works, and you obviously should never go into a court and defend yourself.
Do us all a favor and leave before Jeff hits ya with BanHammah.
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Brought to you by mOOSH, the #1 name in family fun:)
*** This post was edited by TeknoScorpion 8/12/2003 2:27:12 PM ***
CP ismyhome said:
If that is true Jeff, that MF was the first choice over SD, it would kinda kill the idea of any special relationship or contract between CP and Intamin. CP would never miss a chance of getting more air time on Discovery. If there was a special relationship, I think CP would have told Intamin to let Discovery in.
What planet do you live on? I'm not making this up. That's what happened. Furthermore you don't scrap a $25 million project just because you can't get a little extra free TV time, especially since anyone with half a brain knew it'd be on every coaster show since then.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?
TeknoScorpion said: As to IOArules, again, I'll bring up rules in a court of law. In court, it is the Defendant's responsibility to Prove their cause. If a defendant in a criminal case(actually, their lawyer, but the lawyer is going by the defendants words) can prove beyond a resonable doubt that what they are saying is true, they have won the case. There is no "The plaintiff(or D.A., or whomever), still hasen't proven their case, so I don't have to go to jail". Even though you are innocent until proven guilty, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are innocent, otherwise, you are charged. In a Civil case, the only difference is that you have to prove to the majority that you are telling the truth. Still, it rests with the Defendant to PROVE (not speculate) that they are right. If they can not PROVE they are right, they lose the case.
Eh, TeknoScorpion, you don't happen to mean that it's the plantiff's responsibility to prove the accusation, do you? Unless the patriot acts have done something irreversably wrong to our justice system, I'm pretty sure the burden of proof doesn't sit on the shoulders of the defendant, but the prosecution.
Anyway, I think any idea of a contract in regard to twenty million dollar purchases is ludicris. However, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if there was some sort of informal agreement regarding Xcelerator and Dragster.
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Mike Anderson
*** This post was edited by MAnderson 8/12/2003 2:21:35 PM ***
*** This post was edited by MAnderson 8/12/2003 2:22:21 PM ***
IOArules said:
So calling me "beligirant" while reffering to high school has nothing to do with my age?By the way, the word is belligerent.
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"This time I think ... I think it's ... it's going to work!" - Dr.Bruce Banner
This is highly amusing, since it comes from someone who can't spell "referring" and obviously doesn't understand that the contraction "that's" has an apostrophe. (See his post prior to the "belligerent" post for examples of the latter.)
Back on the topic at hand, in this case, IOARules is the plantiff, trying to make an accusation (accusation in this case being connotation-neutral). His accusation must be proven if he wishes the defendants (Intamin and CP) to be "convicted". Those are the basic rules. He has not proven anything beyond a reasonable doubt - except that he truly believes his own speculations.
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--
Harry Baer IV
"Do you think it was a bear?"
"A bear? Bears are sweet! Besides, you ever seen a bear with 40 foot feet?"
*** This post was edited by Baeritone 8/12/2003 2:31:35 PM ***
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Is that a Q-bot in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
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"I go out at 3 o' clock for a quart of milk and come home to my son treating his body like an amusement park!" - Estelle Costanza
Edit:
It actually makes better sense that way, since IOArules is "accusing" CP/CF of a 3 contract deal, and we are "defending" the fact that no such deal ever took place, or atleast not in the form he feels it was:)
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Brought to you by mOOSH, the #1 name in family fun:)
*** This post was edited by TeknoScorpion 8/12/2003 2:33:06 PM ***
IOArules said:
Maybe you guys would like to take a look at this new twist on the concept of the standard impulse coaster, at $9 million it's basically a steal." ......."the new impulse version will make the one over at our competitors obsolete. We'll sign on the dotted line for all 3."
This is perhaps the silliest piffle I've ever read.
First of all, auto dealers don't have the power to do much more than not screw you over. I can purchase new cars from my father's Big 3 automaker for less than the dealer can sell it to himself! Middlemen don't count for much.
But let's poke a few holes in this little tale, shall we? $9 million doesn't represent the cost of the ride, genius--that was CP's total investment. That would have included razing the Aquarium, the queues, fencing, the whole ball of wax.
So what makes you think $13 million is such a steal for Xcelerator when HP is building a ride just as long with inversions for about $10 million? If WT was such a steal, why did VF drop $8.5 million for a standard Impulse (SV) when they built it in the parking lot and didn't have to demolish any existing buildings? Group discount? Multi-coaster contract? Where?
-CO
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
CoastaPlaya, if 9 million is the cost of everything and not just the ride, then that further goes on to show how good of a deal they got on WT. If Steel Venom was 8.5mil then it should be quite obvious Cp got a good deal on WT, which would've been 9mil for everything as you said. What makes you think 13mil isn't a good deal for Xcel? Especially if that cost even included the deconstruction of Wind Jammer as well as all the new themed stuff. If thats not enough, well S:TE was a first of a kind attraction and it cost 20mil, and that was over 6 years ago.
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"This time I think ... I think it's ... it's going to work!" - Dr.Bruce Banner
The price of the holding brake I am pretty sure negates most of the cost of the extra height of WT.
Also 13 Million doesn't seem like a real deal as Hershey's new coaster is about in the same price neighborhood and has more to it.
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If given the choice I'd choose a hamburger over a hotdog anyday of the week.
As for your attempt to defend Xcelerator--do you actually think HersheyPark isn't going to theme their coaster? And you still haven't explained how $13 million could possibly equal a 'fire-sale' price. Do you honestly think it cost $3 million to remove a coaster that wasn't dismantled, but unceremoniously ripped to shreds?
Can you hear that sound? That's the air hissing out of your theory. It doesn't hold up!
-CO
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya 8/12/2003 5:27:27 PM ***
IOArules said:
Gemini, did you even read my posts? The contract didn't include MF. The contract included WT, TTD, and Xcel.
Is this a joke? You are referring to the contract as if it actually exists. It seemed that you were just coming up with ideas and theories. Now, it's as if you are actually reading from this "contract."
I'm sorry that I didn't understand your theory. But I notice that you conveniently ignored everything else in my posts. Would you mind explaining to me exactly how I am wrong? Since you seem to have "inside" knowledge, perhaps you can correct my misstatements.
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Walt Schmidt - Virtual Midway
*** This post was edited by Gemini 8/12/2003 7:53:36 PM ***
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I regret to inform you that Cedar Point's newest roller coaster, Top Thrill Dragster will not be operational today, or tomorrow or probably any day that you decide to visit our park. Please accept our apologies.
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http://said.uc.edu/students/oakleysd/cp/CP.jpg
Now tell me Cedar Point is running out of space.
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The "FAB 5" needs to give Mean Streak a "makeover"
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