Intamin & CP

About an "implied" agreement with Intamin. About Conneauts' Blue Streak being a "death trap". About Walmart having everything you need. About Clear Channel owning most of the radio stations and not exposing some of the better music from the nonmainstream bands. Oh wait....you did start to see the bigger picture with that last one.

Wood - anything else is an imitation

I suppose there is one simple way to solve the mystery, who has Dick Kinzel's phone number?

I know from personal experience in my business, you will receive 'favorable' treatment-pricing if you purchase a larger quantity on one contract.

Although I would assume that Intamin probably doesn't offer any 'buy 3 get 1 FREE' specials.
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Fever

I really enjoy the Simpsons. It's just a shame that I am starting to LOOK like Homer.

Actually there was some sort of deal. Exactly what, I wasn't privy to know, but I do recall the park getting some sort of discount depending on the nuber of coasters they purchased. This doesn't mean though, that there was a 3 coaster contract. there are numerous ways both companies can cover thereselves in agrerments and contracts.

You're still not making a point Thrillerman. If, however, you're taking inventory of what I have to say, you should consider a new hobby or something.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

Jeff seriously, you obviously can do whatever you want cause it's your site, but being all brash and claiming there was no multi coaster deal is pretty rediculous. Especially after last year when you went around claiming those footers were for a pay per ride slingshot attraction like that of Old Town in Florida which has a triangular structure in the first place.... as well as criticizing anyone who thought those footers were for a coaster, and saying they were dreaming that CP would build two coasters in consecutive years, and wow look how that turned out...

Most evidence points to a multi-coaster deal. Maybe it even included Steel Venom. I'm sure Intamin would knock some price of the cost of rides if a customer was getting 4 of their products, like Bayside said. In an unsure market a company is going to show initiative and purchase 4 of your products they would most deffinitely show some appreciation for their interest and cut them some slack on the price of the ride.

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"This time I think ... I think it's ... it's going to work!" - Dr.Bruce Banner

Ever stop to think that Jeff was playing with everyones head about Dragster?

While not knowing exactly what it was he sure as hell knew what it wasn't.

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If given the choice I'd choose a hamburger over a hotdog anyday of the week.

No, there is no evidence to support anything. That's what irritates me. It's not good business.

Ask yourself, if you are in a capital intensive business, do you put all of your faith in one vendor that to that point has no proven track record? Millennium Force's first parts arrived at CP in December '98, so I think it's safe to assume its planning began at least a year prior to that. The modern steel Intamin rides did not exist at that point, with the sole exception being SFDL's Superman, which was under construction. There was no evidence that Intamin's engeineering would be reliable.

Next to Wicked Twister for the 2002 season. I've asked various park folk and you've heard it in the press. They decided they wanted an Impulse for themselves after riding the one at SFWoA. I don't remember where the quote is, but Janice Witherow said something to the effect of, "We rode it, we wanted one."

Then there were the more recent statements, either by Decker, Jasper or Kinzel, I don't remember which one, where they talked about how after Millennium Force opened they knew soon after they wanted to go taller and faster.

Note that for both of these last two rides, the discussions to build them came 2000 or later. Are you guys actually suggesting that they would enter into a three-ride contract without having the slightest idea what they even wanted to build? When you buy a car, do you give the dealer two blank checks to cover your next two cars? Because that's exactly what you're suggesting.

The existance of three Intamin rides isn't evidence of any such contract. The only thing it proves is that they were the vendor who would do it for the least money (because I can tell you for a fact they were far from the only ones to pitch new rides).

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

I am sure, just like any business, Cedar Point sends out the specks for what they want to build and accept bids for the job. Intamin was probably the low bidder or the only one that was willing to accept the challenges presented by Cedar Point.

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I regret to inform you that Cedar Point's newest roller coaster, Top Thrill Dragster will not be operational today, or tomorrow or probably any day that you decide to visit our park. Please accept our apologies.

Why do you keep saying CP would enter a contract with no idea what they were going to build? They knew exactly what they would be getting. An impulse that would supposidly put SFWOA's to shame, and two new prototype launch coasters, one to helpfully work the kinks out of the concept before the record breaking one opened. And by the problems WT, Xcel, and TTD have had it does appear CP decided to try it's luck with a relatively a new company (Intamin) with some neat new concepts that would set CP further away from the rest of the crowd.

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"This time I think ... I think it's ... it's going to work!" - Dr.Bruce Banner

Hell, Cedar Point new very far in advance what they were getting. Xcelerator and Top Thrill Dragster were probably designed at the same time or around the same time. Xcelerator, the small prototype was put into action to see how the Hydraulic system worked. Top Thrill Dragster is then built. Now, Hershey, seeing how sucessful Xcelerator and Dragster have been, go ahead and sign the dotted line with Intamin as well. However, Hershey decided to add a new twist to their rocket. I think it is very safe to say that these parks no very far in advance what they are getting.

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Keep your head back, arms down, and hold on...

IOARules - First off, Intamin is not by any means of the imagination a relatively new company. They've been around for quite awhile. Secondly, Think about it - December 1998, Millennium parts arrived at CP. Concept of the ride must've started atleast a year in advance so that's 1997. How could CP know that S:UE would be such a hit and that they'd want something bigger and better? They couldn't. Plain and simple. CP probably didn't even know that S:UE was being developed!

Now onto the discount thing (Try and follow me as I just got home from the bar)... You know those stamps that Subway gives out? You get a certian number of stamps for each meal, then after getting enough of them you get a free sandwich.

I'm guessing that Intamin has something similar to that.
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Corey
"Afterward, services resumed for about 20 minutes until the congregation realized the church was on fire." - www.channel3000.com

As I recall from talking to a young lady at my school (her grandfather is in charge of the final purchases at CP), he had to fly out to Intamin to sign the final deal with the company in order for them to build TTD and Xcelerator. From what i understand, both contracts were signed at the same time. So I guess, from what that means, they didn't have contracts, although i could be wrong. But i never asked for her to ask him that. Never really thought of it as anything important.

^ I somehow find that hard to believe.

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Is that a Q-bot in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

rollocoast, first off, the multi coaster deal doesn't inlcude MF, it includes Xcel, TTD, and WT. Honestly I dont think CP went to Intamin looking for an impulse, look at their track record of previous attractions, where would a short shuttle coaster fit in? Ummm, nowhere. The design for WT was probabaly already even a concept Intamin had already created ready to market to parks. Oh, also about Intamin being a relatively new company it basically backs up what Jeff said, "Ask yourself, if you are in a capital intensive business, do you put all of your faith in one vendor that to that point has no proven track record?"

Is it that hard of a concept to understand that CP/CF went to Intamin after the consruction of MF (lets say summer of 2000) and said they wanted to go over 400ft, and how could we accomplish that given this amount of money? Intamin says, "Well we have this new hyrdaulic launch concept, which we can make huge heights with short layouts. The concept is basically unproven right now, but we have confidence that it will make for a thrilling reliable attraction." CP/CF says, " Howbout this, another park in our chain, KBF, is in need of a new ride, howbout you guys put together a prototype version of this new concept that can replace this ailing attraction we have (Wind Jammer). Hopefully the kinks can be worked out in the launch mechanism before we open the full fledged 400ft version we want at our signature park, CP." Intamin responds, " Well we'd like to thank you for your commitment to our products even when reports are that attendance at amusement parks is falling. Maybe you guys would like to take a look at this new twist on the concept of the standard impulse coaster, at $9 million it's basically a steal." CP/CF see the design and says, " Wow, you know what, that would make a great filler attraction as we work the kinks out of the hyrdaulic launch. Our guests at CP are accustomed to get a major ride every other year, instead of having to go 2 years without an attraction, they will get two rides in consecutive years, and a major record breaker in the 2nd. Better yet, the new impulse version will make the one over at our competitors obsolete. We'll sign on the dotted line for all 3."

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"This time I think ... I think it's ... it's going to work!" - Dr.Bruce Banner

Whats the deal here? Would it make your day at CP better if there was a multi-deal contract? I would doubt they would have a contract like that. But I have worked for companies (by no means the size and $$ amount of CP) that have done stupid things like that with shady customers, supliers, contractors, in return losing large sums of money. As for me I honestly never accept or offer a contract to do work for a company right off the bat because on my end I would rather do some work without one until I get to see how well the company deals with me and how timely they are all around, and also I don't want to take a contract for something that looks simple that turns out to be a major head ache, my old man did something like that about a year and a half ago and I almost killed the SOB, thought he made a good deal and ended up costing me a bunch of time. Because with a contract like that you can make a ton or lose your a$$, it could be possible that TTD and Xcelerator were a package deal due to the fact MF was a hit but highly unlikely MF was in on that but then again I may be wrong the corporate world doesn't make to much sense. They could of also had a clausable contract meaning if MF is a hit then we'll go with you on the next one and so on, or a verbal contract stating the samething, think about it lets just say MF flopped then would you make yourself locked in a contract for more pieces of junk? Also if they had all the designs done back when they decided on MF dont you think they may have passed it up and went ahead with TTD to blow everyone away right off the bat. I bet if MF was a record breaker you wouldn't even see TTD this soon. I also think WT was just thrown in there for coaster CP's coaster count, it doens't really seem to be there style of ride. But a multi coaster no strings contract just doesn't seem to make sense on in the buisness aspect of the game. I also bet if nothing is challenged CP will take a coaster break for a few years atleast.

Also about the odd really doesn't matter questions, isn't that the subject of about 75% of these threads. People disscuss things they hear may or may not be true or question certain things, no need to get the blood boiling and get all over opinionated, just keep it calm and post your fill on the subject, its going to be alright kids just calm down its almost time for recess.

Then for anyone who said CLP's Blue Streak is a death trap, WTF, is it because it looks like its about to fall over at any minute? Thats one of the best parts. As far as the ride, I don't see anything to rough or extreme in the pain department. I'd say the back seat of KW's Thuderbolt is a lot more painful if sitting on the outside during the mid course of the ride. The BS is a lot better with the original train, the way I see it no matter how the coaster looks you gotta ride it atleast once.

IOARules - That still doesn't show that CP or CF would sign a multi-coaster contract with Intamin. Combining Wicked Twister, Xcelerator, and Dragster (and why not add Steel Venom while were at it) into one contract would obligate CF to purchase almost 60 million worth of Intamin rides. 60 million is alot of money for any business to just throw around and hope for the best.
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Corey
"Afterward, services resumed for about 20 minutes until the congregation realized the church was on fire." - www.channel3000.com

Someone seriously needs some lessons in Microeconomics.

If Millie were in the planning stages since 1997 how in the world would they envision what Intamin woul be able to do 5 or 6 years from then? We know for a fact they "wanted" an impulse to basically out WoA, WoA. But thenwe have dragster. I would think that Xcelerator was put in as an "OK if you can do this and get it to work we just may purchase one like it but on a much larger scale" I believe at that time Intamin picked up the ball and ran with it for dragsters design.

Teh fact of the matter is that no other company would design a Millie, WT, or Dragster type of ride. The rumor is that B&M placed a bid for Millie, but the price was astronomical, plus the rumor that the relations between B&M and CP are rather sour always comes out as well.

To say that CF signed a contract signed a contract for 4 or even 5 coasters in 1997, before they had a clue as to what could be done in the future is completely and totally baseless and makes no sense whatsoever.

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If given the choice I'd choose a hamburger over a hotdog anyday of the week.

Corey and Brent get it... why is it so hard for everyone else to understand?

It's true, none of us really know, but basic business practice and the timeline we've been over sure make it seem obvious to me. So far the only evidence anyone has given for a multi-ride contract is that they have three recent Intamin rides. Like I said, that's like saying I had something with Toyota because my last three cars were Toyotas.

Now you see why I hate rumour mongering... things fester into fact without any rational reasoning.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

It appears to me that most everybody is missing one important part of this conversation. Everyone keeps referring to CP relationship with Intamin. Has anyone stopped to think about Intamin's relationship with CP?

Let me explain, if you (as a business) purchase a state of the art product from a company (in this case MF) and are happy with the results, you probably will purchase from the company again. Now, if you are a company (in this case Intamin) who is trying to push the envelope with some new technologies and you have an extremely good working relationship with one of your customers (in this case CP), you may be willing to say 'hey, we got this new idea, do you want to help us develop it?' (which can be done at a discount).

The key here is the working relationship between both companies. If you are a product vendor and have a customer who is as excited and helpful in seeing the success of your product, you would be a fool to ignore their assistance. I think this is the case between CP and Intamin. They both appear to substantially trust each other. If you want proof think about this, despite all the problems with TTD (and XLR8R for that matter), not once has CP 'publicly bashed' Intamin. CP still appears to be in full support of Intamin which indicates they are mutually respectful of each other.

To summarize, I think Jeff is absolutely correct in saying that there is no way that the contract was signed for all 3 or 4 coasters at the same time. I also believe that CP and Intamin have developed a powerful working relationship during this entire process.

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Fever

I really enjoy the Simpsons. It's just a shame that I am starting to LOOK like Homer.

Magnum Force, you need a lesson in common sense.

For the third time, WT, Xcel, and TTD have absolutely nothing to do with MF. This deal wasn't made in 97' it was made in 00', how many times does it have to be said? Secondly we don't know for a fact CP wanted to out WOA of their impulse. If it was that important to oust WOA of all their rides then why doesn't CP have a flyer and floorless? Next, if they made the dececsion to put in TTD after evaluating Xcel, then why were there footers in place for TTD before Xcel even opened?

Jeff if you went to a Toyota dealership and told them you wanted three cars, they would knock off a huge chunk of the price tag. One of my dad's good friends works at a Lexus dealership here in ATL and they occasionally get people who are getting multiple cars at the same time, one occurance thats fond in my memory was this guy who baught two IS300's for each of his sons for graduating high school last year. The normal cost of the cars with the specific options was about $34,500, they sold the two for $27,000 each.

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"This time I think ... I think it's ... it's going to work!" - Dr.Bruce Banner