I 305 gets trim on the first drop

I don't think that's the case. Because of the bank, I think the blood loss actually stays uniform. If the curve wasn't as banked then you'd be getting more lateral G's and potentially causing what your talking about.

I'm not an expert on physics by any stretch of the imagination. For more detailed G Force information, go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force

It doesn't matter which side of the body the blood goes after it leaves your head. People gray-out because of blood-loss from the head, because that's where there brain is. (well, that's were some people's brains are, anyways. ;) )

That makes sense, progressive banking to keep the center of gravity.

RideMan said:
dj: ...Which is why I added that qualifier about "if the real reason is timing". If the ride were running three trains, it might make more sense, because the real limiting factor on load times is not the time it takes for the train to complete "A" or "B", but actually "C" and "D". The time on the lift limits how soon you *can* dispatch the next train; time in the gravity portion of the ride limits how soon you *must* dispatch the next train.

Perhaps I'm looking at this wrong. I'm assuming that by "timing", you mean giving the train in the station more time for unload/load. And this is what I've assumed was the purported reasoning for the trim in the first place - the ride takes so long to load that stacking is common (and undesirable).

In that context, I'm not sure why any discussion of blocks matters, beyond the fact that simply increasing the time Train 1 spends not in the station provides more time for the loading of Train 2. If that result is achieved by making Train 1's out-of-station time longer, does it matter whether that's achieved by lengthening the duration of the ascent or gravity-powered portion? This procedure may not hold up with 3-train operation, but I cannot see why simply slowing the lift for Train 1 would not provide more time for Train 2 to load.

Again, perhaps I'm missing some huge "aha" element of your explanation.

No, we're both puzzling over the same thing.

With only two trains running, *anything* done to increase the ride time...slowing the lift, stopping on block brakes, trimming, whatever...will have the same overall effect, that of providing more time for the train in the station.

While it is true that Mantis:TCFKAB was running three trains when the trim brake was added, it has not run three trains in a number of years. With three train operation, as I noted earlier, it WOULD make a difference where the trimming happened because that would determine which block got longer. With only two trains, though, it shouldn't make any difference at all.

The trim on Mantis:TCFKAB is dynamic, but it is based not on cycle time, but train speed. There are two switches ahead of the brake that measure the train speed and allow for the brake to be adjusted accordingly.

Furthermore, Mantis:TCFKAB runs trimmed when it is only running one train. That should also tell you something.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

That was going to be my follow-up... That the trim being there for interval reasons doesn't really make sense, when running 2 trains. That it's used with 1 train operation is telling indeed (unless there's no way to turn it off, which would be surprising).

Assuming Mantis's trim was installed for unknown reasons, can anyone think of another coaster that has a trim whose sole purpose is to alter timing?

Just about every B&M with a mid course brake, Magnum before the turn around...

I think you could argue the Italian Job coasters do, albeit with theatrics. :)

But a mid-course is to separate the coaster into blocks so more trains can be out on the course at once. Trims are certainly not blocks.

A couple of other points. They list the ride duration at 3:00 minutes, I have no idea where this number comes from. When I was there I timed it at just over 1 1/2 minutes from dispatch to when the train was stopped on the break run.

MF on the other hand is listed at 2:20 which seems about right considering that it is nearly 1500'longer.

Yeah, 3:00 seems very inflated. From the time you sit down to the time you stand up might be 3:00.

DaveStroem said:
When I was there I timed it...

You know you're a coaster geek when...

;)

I resemble that comment.

I only timed it after my first ride. I went in expecting a 3 minute ride, when we got back I was wondering where the rest of the ride was. The next time we got back in line I timed it.

DaveStroem said:
I resemble that comment.

I think a lot of us do.

With all the tinkering with the ride i have to wonder if they will have it figured out before the next one opens in 2011 at SF!

Trims are not blocks, but blocks can be trims. I think....

Exactly right, JoshuaTBell.

--Dave Althoff, Jr., resident blockhead

Quick update on changes to I305:

* First drop now has even more trims installed.

* Mid-ride trims have been completely removed.

* No changes in the restraints.

I can only imagine how disappointing the first drop is now......sigh.

Honestly, I can deal with a subpar first drop, How is the airtime on the 2nd hill and the rest of the ride now?