Great Vertigo 'train' - would it be possible on B&M's?

Well, to state the opposing argument succinctly - AFAIK there have been no riders ejected from an Anton lapbar-only restraint.

While I tend to agree that the degree of headbanging isn't typically severe, and that most riders don't seem to notice/care (meaning it's highly unlikely B&M will/would invest in a new restraint system)...how would they be able to compare it to something they've not yet experienced (stealing Moosh's Timberliner argument for a second)...?

rollergator said:

While I tend to agree that the degree of headbanging isn't typically severe, and that most riders don't seem to notice/care (meaning it's highly unlikely B&M will/would invest in a new restraint system)...how would they be able to compare it to something they've not yet experienced (stealing Moosh's Timberliner argument for a second)...?

So the masses are fine because they don't know any better?

Good things we have forums like this so the enlightened can tell us all what we're missing. ;)

It's fine as it is because it doesn't matter. People don't care because it's not that important. The ride experience has more than met the point of diminishing returns. Any little extra goodness that one could possibly squeak out isn't going to make a bit of difference to the majority and is not worth the effort to pursue.

Lord Gonchar said: They'd be more enjoyable with fluffy pillows and a mint too.

Until you choke on the mint (much like that little girl who choked on gum whilst riding SFGAm's Batman).

I can't speak for the general public, but I can give my own opinion (and will!). OTSR's are a major detriment to my riding experience. In fact, they are probably my #1 detriment. Being almost 6'4" doesn't help. I was excited about Intimidator 305 but decided that I wouldn't ride it after seeing the restraints. Now that the restraints have changed, visiting the park is back in my plans.

My biggest problem with OTSR's is not only that there is no denying they are worse than lap bars in every case, but that they seem to be slapped on various rides for no good reason. Why on earth can TTD continue to operate with just lap bars but Kingda Ka was constructed with OTSR's?

I am 6'3, and have never had any issues with any OTSR except for the vekoma slc coasters.

What a difference an inch makes....

I don't get it?

What caves at Darien lake?

Mamoosh said:
What a difference an inch makes....

It's what you do with the inch that counts though. That was for you, Moosh). That's 2 racy comment points for the year, what do I get?

Speaking of how much OTSRs takes away from rides, lets also note that every American Premier coaster that originally had OTSRs has had them removed ;) In favor of more comfortable lap bars of course...

CoasterDemon said:

Mamoosh said:
What a difference an inch makes....

It's what you do with the inch that counts though. That was for you, Moosh). That's 2 racy comment points for the year, what do I get?

Speaking of how much OTSRs takes away from rides, lets also note that every American Premier coaster that originally had OTSRs has had them removed ;) In favor of more comfortable lap bars of course...

Yea, but the B&M OTSR, is not making peoples ears bleed like the premer OTSR did.

Carrie M. said:
I also think there's a certain psychological element, too. I've heard people in general discuss their perceived safety with OSTR versus not. I think if a park wants as much ridership as possible, then it might be in their best interest to use them even if it can be proven to be unnecessary.

A while back somebody posted on one of the Timberliner threads on Holiday World's Facebook page that they hope the new trains have the "horse collar" bars, because it feels unsafe withy just the lap bar.

crazy horse said:
I don't get it?

What caves at Darien lake?

Predator. Caves was a metaphor. ;)

I think your sitting height is more important than your standing height. I tend to get knocked around by every coaster with OTSR's. Maverick and I305 beat the crap out of me. Raptor has a really nasty jolt as it transitions from the helix to the brakerun. Alpengeist and Medusa/Bizarro have it climbing into their midcourse brakes. Pretty much every B&M corkscrew-style element gets me if I don't brace for it. All of the stand-ups are "tap-tap to the head" throughout the entire ride pretty much. Even the Busch dive coasters bump my head at some point if I'm not bracing for it.

I will agree that most of these are minor enough for most people that they aren't going to stop the GP from worshiping these rides, but occasionally it's bad enough that you hear the GP complaining about the headbanging as well.

The un-restricted view and ability to move your head around without bumping into anything while racing along those tracks is what excites me. That sense of freedom is gone on any coaster with a big piece of hardware wrapped around your upper body. I too prefer rides like SFoG's Mind Bender and SFoT's Shock Wave over any coaster with OTSR's save for Big Bad Wolf, which was so much fun, even a stupid horse collar restraint couldn't ruin for me.

We all like different things. Heck I'll ride the roughest of wooden coasters and love them while most others hate them, just as long as my head doesn't get bashed into something. So what's wrong with sharing ideas for improving the things we don't like? ;)

Acoustic Viscosity said:
So what's wrong with sharing ideas for improving the things we don't like? ;)

Nothing.

What's wrong with saying, "I disagree and here's why?"

Because then you're not a true coaster enthusiast. Duh!

TAER down all teh inverts!!!11!!

Yes...unless it's the one at Darien Lake..THAT will harm you no matter WHERE you are....

ZING! :p -- Curious if you've been on it this year with the Voyage trains? I used to always tell my friends to avoid it at ALL COSTS, it will ruin your day [and the ones that don't listen have their days ruined :-P]... this year, I actually encourage riding!

As noted in my TR, I rode on July 2. They were my first rides on it after always hearing a lot of negative comments. I did know about the "new" trains, but not having been on it before, I had no point of reference. Don't know what it was like, but if this is improved...well, I'll pass. I tried front, back, and middle..none was enjoyable, front and middle barely tolerable. I thought it would be the most painful and least enjoyable woodie for me this year...then I rode Wildcat at Compounce.

Gonch is UnAmerican.

Carrie M. said:
Because then you're not a true coaster enthusiast. Duh!

You "duhed" me!

(is that the past tense of 'duh' as a verb?)

Tekwardo said:
Gonch is UnAmerican.

I'm the last great iconoclast.

CoasterDemon said:
Speaking of how much OTSRs takes away from rides, lets also note that every American Premier coaster that originally had OTSRs has had them removed ;) In favor of more comfortable lap bars of course...

Why on Earth would they DO that? ;)

Seriously though, Speed: The Ride kept its OTSRs, but that ride's specific layout really means there's almost no gain to be had from making the change. Oops, now I'm making Gonch's argument for him, LOL. :)

What's making me inVESTed in this discussion? Recent rides on Carolina Cobra - you read that right, I've taken multiple laps on a (previously-ridden) Boomerang. Boomerangs, I really don't ride after getting a credit lap. I don't care for backwards travel or for cobra rolls (headbanging). Even in the meh enclosed Arrow train, I really found the difference to be substantial. Jill, my personal "window on the GP", said it this way: "the ride's still too forceful in the turn right after the station, but the lack of headbanging was a REALLY nice change." She normally skips all Boomerangs, but I talked her into CC because I thought the restraints made that big of a difference when I rode earlier in the year.

Lord Gonchar said:

You "duhed" me!

Well yeah, what goes around, comes around. ;) Mwah!