Great Vertigo 'train' - would it be possible on B&M's?

SFoGswim said:

The only real reason that OTSR's exist is to protect against the unbelievably rare occurrence that a ride somehow gets stuck upside-down. They certainly aren't there to ensure guests stay put under normal operation; looping coasters don't undergo any forces that some lap-bar-only coaster somewhere doesn't also experience.

^Actually, I'm not so sure about that. I believe the real reason for OTSR is to keep people 'back' against the headrest to prevent heads being thrown forward entering or anywhere in the loop. Perfect example is SFMM Revolution. I know there are lots of rumors why those OTSRs are there, but I think that is the real one.

Rollercoasters have been stopped upside-down with only lap bars (Sirocco/Turbine comes to mind) and the passengers were fine - the lap bars kept them in.

Frankly, I feel like there would be something missing without the OTSR's, especially on the inverts. I think they add to that fighter-jet feel. Having just a lap bar seems like it would feel a little...goofy, I guess.

^Something would be missing - the pain and obstructed views.

It's kinda strange to me... that people who enjoy coasters would want more restriction, more pain and more obstructed views. Just don't understand :) To each his own as they say.

CoasterDemon said:
^Something would be missing - the pain and obstructed views.

It's kinda strange to me... that people who enjoy coasters would want more restriction, more pain and more obstructed views. Just don't understand :) To each his own as they say.

I don't have any pain or obstructed views on B&M coasters. Why try to fix what's not broken? I thought that was intamins job?;)

CoasterDemon said:
It's kinda strange to me... that people who enjoy coasters would want more restriction, more pain and more obstructed views.

Seems stranger to me that people who enjoy coasters would complain about them so much.

I just wanna know who left their jeans on the damn seat.

I knew there was a reason I liked you, Gonch. :)

Lord Gonchar said:
Seems stranger to me that people who enjoy coasters would complain about them so much.

Not really strange to me - when you "specialize" in a certain field, you tend to notice things that kinda bug you, things that may be OK as is...but could be better still with some minor tweaking...

I've always been curious to see the OTSR portion of the flyers restraints used on the inverts. They seem to have better visibility, more comfort, and they also seem to be more accommodating of larger guests.

What's strange to me is that every time someone says they don't agree with a general complaint about coasters, their true coaster enthusiasm comes into question.

Carrie, are you sure you're an enthusiast?

As to the question at hand, I don't care one way or the other. I haven't had any headbanging on an inverted B&M that I can recall ever. Mantis sucks, but not because of the restraints.

I believe the real reason for OTSR is to keep people 'back' against the headrest to prevent heads being thrown forward entering or anywhere in the loop.

Wouldn't the forces exerted on you do that, though? I've never seen anyones head go forward anywhere in an inversion on an Anton or a Premier with just lap bars.

When you get the sudden increase of positive g's, if you're leaning forward, you'll get crumpled into a ball for the duration of the loop.

Well yeah, but most designs seem to be rides that exert forces so that you really can't easily lean forward during the dynamic parts of the ride, anywho. At least the ones with OTSRs.

Raven-Phile said:
I knew there was a reason I liked you, Gonch. :)

So it's not my girlish figure?

^ Well, of course there's always that, too.

Curves?

Tekwardo said:

I've never seen anyones head go forward anywhere in an inversion on an Anton or a Premier with just lap bars.

That's all I see on SFoG's Mind Bender--especially on the first loop. The first drop has almost not slope to it and the bottom of it levels out very slowly to the point where the forces almost stop. If you get a false sense of calm and lean forward going into the loop, you have almost no chance of returning upright before exiting the loop.

So if OTSR's aren't there to keep people secured upside-down nor are they there to keep people back against the headrest... why do they even exist?

But you're seeing people's heads go back with the forces, right? I mean, obviously it isn't an issue because that ride has operated without OTSRs for years, so there isn't an obvious need to put them on to keep people from moving their heads forward.

As to why they ever started, I dunno. I don't think anyone is saying "No! WE MUST HAVE OTSRs!", but more of a "Meh, it's fine the way it is on B&M coasters". I tend to agree.

Arrow trains, OTOH...

I've witnessed many, many times people's head move forward and towards their chest on SFMM's Revolution (pre and post OSTRs).

I also think there's a certain psychological element, too. I've heard people in general discuss their perceived safety with OSTR versus not. I think if a park wants as much ridership as possible, then it might be in their best interest to use them even if it can be proven to be unnecessary.