Great Vertigo 'train' - would it be possible on B&M's?

http://www.rcdb.com/3457.htm?p=20619

Of course there would be the issue of your upper body thrusting forward, but there are solutions to that as well.

Just wanting to get some opinions :)

The newer SLC trains have a lap bar/vest combo. I think B&M could do something similar. I guess if they wanted to, they could modify the flyer restraints to be more lapbar-esq.

^Yeah, but how about NO upper body stuff, no shoulder bars/vests. The vests may be a slight improvement, but have drawbacks as well.

What's wrong with B&M's current inverted trains?

^Think, I'll give you 18 guesses, Moosh :)

Instead of 'whats wrong' with them, how about 'how could they be more comfortable'? That's what I'm trying to get at.

I think they're fairly comfortable as-is. I wouldn't want them to change. I'm not sure where the notion at OTSR = uncomfortable came from, but I wouldn't want to ride a B&M invert with only a lap restraint. It wouldn't feel right.

^Personally, I much prefer lap bar only loopers. OTSRs have always been a headache, limit view, can't see your friend next to you, just a pain in the head. They have never felt right to me.

Add me to the "don't have a problem with their current train design" group. Unless one is sitting in the first row you can't see anything anyway.

Mamoosh said:
Add me to the "don't have a problem with their current train design" group.

Me too.

Even using the retrofitted SLC at Morey's as a basis for potential comparison of OTSR vs lapbar, it's not that big of a deal.

If the retrofitted SLC at Morey's actually had just a lap bar, it might have made a bigger difference....

*I* think the Vertigo seating looks like something I suggested circa. 1992.

--Dave Althoff, Jr., who never met a shoulder bar he liked...

Off topic - Note to self: Don't name a ride Vertigo. Because man, it just won't work.

Rob

The thought of being able to ride a B&M invert without the possibility, nay, guarantee of hitting my head/neck into the restraint is almost too much to handle. I would absolutely love a lap-bar-only invert (or any other coaster for that matter).

The only real reason that OTSR's exist is to protect against the unbelievably rare occurrence that a ride somehow gets stuck upside-down. They certainly aren't there to ensure guests stay put under normal operation; looping coasters don't undergo any forces that some lap-bar-only coaster somewhere doesn't also experience.

I am with most of you.

I like the current design that is being used. Never had any issues with it.

SFoGswim, have you ever ridden a [Rock|Loop|Fly]-O-Plane or a Ring of Fire/Super Loops or a Ranger?

The center of mass of the seated human body is slightly above the chair and right in the middle of the body. Secure THAT, and the rest of the body will easily follow. The shoulder bar might be a little more comfortable to lie against if you're face-down, but it's not necessary to make the ride safe even if the ride stalls upside down.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Just because some/most OTSRs aren't *that* uncomfortable doesn't make them a preferred method of restraining riders. Add to Dave's examples one of the greatest steel coasters ever (and certainly one of the top shuttles) in Chiller post-retrofit...and it is crystal-clear that you don't NEED to secure the shoulders to restrain the riders.

Oh, and something that goes *around* the shoulders but only restrains the thighs....seems pretty much OK by me...not that I've been asked by any ride manufacturers. ;)

Raven-Phile said:
...I wouldn't want to ride a B&M invert with only a lap restraint. It wouldn't feel right.

You're correct. It would feel even better. ;)

I don't understand why anyone here would shoot down the idea of replacing OTSRs with a proper lap bar. I truly see no advantages (whatsoever) of having OTSRs on a ride that could run safely without them.

Those of you who "have no problem" with the current restraints...have you ever ridden Mantis? Raptor? Alpengeist? If so, can you honestly report that your head did not once strike the hard rubber shoulder bars? I can't.

Just imagine each of those rides with a more open feeling, better view, and zero headbanging. Please share with us: why don't these ideas appeal to you?

DantheCoasterman said:
Those of you who "have no problem" with the current restraints...have you ever ridden Mantis? Raptor? Alpengeist?

Dude, you so busted all of us.

None of us have ever been on any of those coasters.

So your only response to my entire post is a wise crack regarding a rhetorical question?

Should I take that as a compliment? :)

Maybe.

Or you can just view it as a wisecrack response to a wiseass question. :)

My take?

They're fine as they are. I never really had a problem with them.

Would lap bars be better? Maybe.

Do I sit around and long for B&M to come up with a design that doesn't use OTSRs? No.

Will I continue to ride B&Ms with the OTSR design and not give it a second thought? Yes.

And no, I don't seem to have the same headbanging problems that so many complain about. I think Maverick is fine the way it is - the B&M's don't even make me think twice.

Like I said, I base a lot of my opinion on the retrofitted SLC at Morey's. It's not technically a lap bar only, but it's a huge step forward from the old SLC OTSR. It didn't really make the ride anything special or make me want to ride it more - and that's on a Hang and Bang, which wasn't fine to begin with. I see little reason to consider the idea for the B&Ms, which are totally fine as they stand.

I guess I just don't look wistfully into the sky and dream of riding free and unencumbered. I suck at being an enthusiast. I don't complain about coaster trains enough. ;)

DantheCoasterman said:

Those of you who "have no problem" with the current restraints...have you ever ridden Mantis? Raptor? Alpengeist? If so, can you honestly report that your head did not once strike the hard rubber shoulder bars? I can't.

Ridden all three, can honestly say they were butter-smooth with no headbanging on my rides.