GL's Steel Venom probably also on it's way out....

Yeah, I often forget how wonderful Missouri is. I guess I overlooked that fact until you reminded me, Ray ;)

^^ Good point, SoCal does have lots of amusement park competition. Same for Ohio. Both of those are more "amusement-rich" than the area Swoosh speaks of, making me wonder even more what he was trying to get at.

---

ProgRay said:
Don't you get it, Rob? If it's not in Missouri, which is apparently the greatest state in the nation and the closest thing to heaven on earth that we'll find.

---

Finally someone that is talking some sense. ;)

I would say SoCal had a bigger comp. I mean Knotts, SFMM, DISNEYLAND, DCA, SFDK, SWSD, GA

Six Flags Discovery Kingdom and Great America are in Northern California. They don't even advertise in So Cal.

^ But they are "within a day's drive".... ;)

LOL, not even sure how that's relevant, I can get to Lake Compounce in a day's drive.... :)

How in the heck is Cedar Point driving it all that revenue while Kings Island isn't?? In 2005, Kings Island has 3.3 million while Cedar Point had 3.1. How in the heck does that happen? Is it a smaller park at Kings Island, and do they have less shops? Are they charging a lot more previously (not this year) for Cedar Point compared to Kings Island?

Maybe it's because of all the other stuff that Cedar Fair has in Sandusky? The three hotels, campground, indoor waterpark, etc...?

---

Ilovthevu' said:
How in the heck is Cedar Point driving it all that revenue while Kings Island isn't?? In 2005, Kings Island has 3.3 million while Cedar Point had 3.1. How in the heck does that happen? Is it a smaller park at Kings Island, and do they have less shops? Are they charging a lot more previously (not this year) for Cedar Point compared to Kings Island?

---

The figures include hotels, water parks, and anything else that Cedar Fair owns near the park. Rob pointed out most of the stuff but there are other things as well including the Marinas. For example Knotts has 3 water parks in California.

Kings Island does not even have a campground anymore. Also average spending per a guest was $4 higher at Cedar Fair parks then Paramount Parks in 2005 (I think it was $34 vs $38). That alone could be $13 million dollars.

Sorry I missed where the $13 million number came from, is that Kenban's hypothetical figure or something that has been published?

An average of $4 per guest in additional spending multiplied by 3 million + guests per year is how I figure he arrived at that number.

---

Mamoosh said:
I would say SoCal had a bigger comp. I mean Knotts, SFMM, DISNEYLAND, DCA, SFDK, SWSD, GA

Six Flags Discovery Kingdom and Great America are in Northern California. They don't even advertise in So Cal.

---

Yeah, but that's closer than driving from Pennsylvania to New Jersey, which Rob Ascough is suggesting as part of Dorney Park's competition.

So what if Great America and Discovery Kingdom is in Northern California? Southern California has greater competition and higher volume market saturation, even without the two Northern California parks (still less than a day's drive away) compared to what Dorney Park has to deal with, which I believe was what Kennywooddude intended to suggest.

Knott's Berry Farm; Legoland; Six Flags Magic Mountain; SeaWorld Adventure Park; Universal Studios Hollywood; Disneyland; Disney's California Adventure.

You have practically every major theme park operator player in this one market area. Disney, Six Flags, Universal, Anheuser Busch, and Cedar Fair.

And those are just the big players in Southern California. I'm not even listing all of the smaller parks like Santa Monica Pier; Belmont Park; Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk; Scandia; Castle Park; Boomers; Adventure City, etc. (ok, well that's technically listing ;))

And you could also count in that upcoming Garden Grove theme park if you'd like. ;)

I was including parks that are within a 4-5 hour radius of the parks in question. Most parks in PA and ALL parks in NJ are within 4-5 hours of Dorney, and most are actually within 2-3 hours. There is no way that the northern CA parks and any less than 6-7 hours from the southern CA parks.

^^SFGAdv and Dorney are within 2 hours of each other. Driving from Pennsylvania to New Jersey could take anywhere from 15 minutes to maybe 4 or 5 hours. I would consider Dorney and SFGAdv to be in some degree of competition, but I doubt it's as outright as, say, SoCal.

Technically, if you're right on the border, driving from PA to NJ takes 1 second.

Dorney and Great Adventure compete with each other, while northern and southern CA parks do not. That's what we're getting at here.

Damn too bad Dorney is getting this because PCW would really make a great home for Steel Venom, you know being kind of land-locked and all.

^Nobody said anything definite (yet).

Who said Dorney is getting the ride? As far as I know, nothing has been announced, and it probably won't be announced for quite some time.

It would not make sense for Dorney to get it. Between some other ... "rumors" ... that are all but confirmed for 2008, it would be a waste of money. PCW would be better suited.

Despite the extra credit that would be 5 minutes away, I would not want it at Dorney because it would be wasting the potential this has at a few other parks within the chain, and get more "bang for their buck".

It actually makes perfect sense to me at Dorney. Especially given it's potential location which wont even need a shoehorn to get it in. The only thing that worries me is Allentown's apparent regard for ambient noise outside of the park. That is the only thing that I think may keep Steel Venom from appearing at Dorney. It just plain makes sense to install it there given the competition.

PCW would be a very interesting choice. They DID just get their first launch, though (not counting Thunder Run, which maybe I should, it's crazy-fun). But for a park with such *great* flats, and lacking in a true stand-out thrill coaster, it wouldn't totally surprise me if SV ended up there.