Gay Marriage at Cedar Point: Please help us!

Ensign Smith said:

ApolloAndy said:

Religion is having the humility to know that you don't know it all.

If that's the case, then I know a whole bunch of people who aren't nearly as religious as they think they are.

I completely and totally agree.

Well you're wrong Clint. Turning a blind eye to this is passing it on to the next generation.

On point - how many people her were born Christian? How many were born Jehovah's Witnesses? Catholic? Jew? Jedi?

My sexuality is totally and utterly natural to me, much as my pealy-wally Scottish complexion and my wonky knees are - this is how it is, I'm not suffering or being punished by not being in "the clan" or vice versa. for everyone out there who has the "gay is a choice" thing, ask yourself where that thought came from - within or without? I am far from perfect but it has nothing to do with my gender or sexuality, it has to do with thinking for, and being, myself.

To be denied equality as a human being has to be the priority here. Prejudice is a learned behaviour and a damaging one at that. Pro or Anti whatever the case may be, try to reconcile your thinking on that where you're not permitted to make racist or sexist statements.

~Sorry for the long-windedness peeps

While I think it's true, I'd hate for people to change their view because other people are going to judge them in some hypothetical future. I'd hope people would act in ways they believe are right, not because future people will judge them.

I agree. I'm not interested in necessarily changing anyone's beliefs at all, as sad as I think some are.

I'm only interested in helping people evolve (and yes, I use that word purposely) into the type of human being who understands that it's wrong to impose one's beliefs onto others when said beliefs cause direct harm to others.

You know, like the Taliban. And the owner of Chik-fil-A. And the "religious right". They're all the same.

Rollergator, I can't like the image you posted enough. :)

ApolloAndy said:

While I think it's true, I'd hate for people to change their view because other people are going to judge them in some hypothetical future. I'd hope people would act in ways they believe are right, not because future people will judge them.

By that standard, however, we would still have slavery. If you look at history, the real heretics were the people who thought through things far enough to be truly enlightened and see a better future for everyone. I think most people, including me, aren't all that good at that, but we should still strive for it.

For me, my stance also bears more than a passing connection to the past as well. I always wondered what side of the civil rights movement I would have been on in the 1950s and 60s, had I been around then. I used to like to think I would have been on the right side. Now I'm certain I would have then, because I am now. Does that make sense?

Jim I'm not wrong. Saying someone doesn't have the right to believe what they do is wrong regardless of what those beliefs are. It doesn't mean I have to agree.

That does not mean that someone has the right to infringe in the rights of others.

It also doesn't mean that people can't change.

But to say that someone doesn't have the right to believe whatever they want, to me, is far too dangerous.

WOW! This sure has taken off. Thank you all (even the ones who disagreed with my stance or approach) for sharing your thoughts. I would like to especially thank the folks who tweeted Tony and Cedar Point to share your thoughts on their decision. I'm pleased that all the tweets were polite and respectful in tone.

As you know, unfortunately, Cedar Point canceled the event. Scott and I are terribly disappointed that they chose that route instead of welcoming same-sex partners to participate in a commitment ceremony (which would NOT have been illegal). It was a public relations move, not a legal move. I understand from a business perspective they don't wish to alienate people, but that is what they ended up doing with some of the LGBT community.

When Scott and I walk down the midways, we sometimes enjoy holding hands as we stroll. I can't remember feeling uncomfortable even once. I don't think the individual people (like Tony) have anything against anyone, but as a company with so many LGBT stakeholders, it would have meant something great for them to stand with their friends who are without equal rights.

At the end of the day, I disagree strongly with their decision and view it as a cowardly choice to make. At the same time, I respect that they had every right to make that decision. I just wished they would have acted with their LGBT friends in mind, instead of acting out of fear of bigots retaliating.

Jeff said:

Getting "gay married" won't infringe on anyone's personal liberties. No one gets hurt. So yeah, when someone attempts to oppress that act, at the very least it's discriminatory. And stupid.

This is certainly worth repeating:

“The Arc of the Moral Universe Is Long, but It Bends Toward Justice” - Martin Luther King Jr.

Thank you all again very much for your help. And if you disagreed, thank you for the dialog on the subject.

I just thought this needed repeated:

"At the end of the day, I disagree strongly with their decision and view it as a cowardly choice to make. At the same time, I respect that they had every right to make that decision"

I agree with Tek. It would be a very difficult choice to make. The fact that they are working on including same-sex couples in their plans for adding ceremonies in the near future, among other reasons, is enough for to show me that they really don't harbor ill towards gays.

I just can't get past the Chik-Fil-A locations at the parks though. It really bothers me. I have not been the same person since the "Chik-Fil-A appreciation day" almost exactly a year ago. Every time I pass a Chik-Fil-A location and see just how many people are eating there, it both frustrates me and makes me feel a kind of slightly painful self-loathing.

Here is a photo of the line of cars waiting to get into my local Chik-Fil-A on that day. This is just a snapshot of one moment in time. The cars looked like that almost all day long.

I had to pull my car over as I passed this line, because it made me feel so sad and hated. I had a good cry in that moment.

I tried to forgive CFA by eating at the restaurant a few months ago, but that didn't work out too well because I noticed a framed news article boasting about how successful that event was, hanging above the garbage can after I ate, in an area of the store where everyone was pretty much forced to notice it.

About the photo above, I lifted it from a relative's Facebook. You do not want to know the hateful text that accompanied it. Part of what I said about the photo when I posted it that day...

It's just so depressing. That display of homophobia and hate has effectively killed the loving spark that was in me. I have no love for my fellow mankind anymore, and if you know me, that's a really big thing.

I still feel that way. How can I trust that the people I know or the new people that I meet aren't secretly thinking that I was created just to burn in Hell?

Leviticus 20:13 (KJV) If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Why am I still a Christian again? This thing has been very trying on my faith, but it just keeps getting stronger for some reason.

Because you know that being Christian has nothing to do with being anti-gay.

Being a Christian also has nothing to do with Leviticus, or the bible, or going to a building once, twice, or three times a week.

It's personal.

:)

Yeah, I've had a similar crisis of faith, and not even for any reason that I felt personally wronged in. It was just based on the dip****tery of others.Maybe that was a good thing. I suppose today I subscribe to some vaguely Christian belief, but I'm not passionate about the religion itself. Passion is better placed trying to be a good person who impacts the world in a positive way. That's really the spirit of every major religion anyway.

Well, the things that are abominations in Leviticus are:
a) Eating a sacrifice on the third day
b) Eating eagles, vultures and ospreys
c) Lying with a man as with a woman
d) Not setting apart the unclean animals and staying away from them (like pigs)

Yeah. So....probably don't take that literally?

Edit:
Sadly, there are a lot of things that the church does which actively obstruct people from experiencing God. Like even beyond the normal "we're just human" to, in many cases selfishness and hypocrisy, and in a few to downright asshatery. As far as I can tell, more and more churches are springing up which are primarily focused on being good news in the community and less focused on "building a bigger thing."

Jeff said:
By that standard, however, we would still have slavery.

I would hope that people worked to abolish slavery because it was wrong. Not because of social tides.

If you look at history, the real heretics were the people who thought through things far enough to be truly enlightened and see a better future for everyone.

Well, also the people who were batsh*t crazy. And distinguishing the two is actually quite difficult.

I have refrained from commenting in this topic because there is no reason for me to comment in it. Now that Christianity has been brought into it, I will comment on my take of Leviticus and etc.

IMO, a lot of the rules in Leviticus was strictly for the Israelites before Jesus came. These laws were to make the Israelites different. Look at Leviticus 19:19, as it says you can't were certain mediums of clothing. That obviously doesn't apply today, and I believe God doesn't care anymore. A lot of these weird rules became extinct in the same way the Leviticus sacrificing laws became extinct.

As it says in Romans, "all have sinned". It is a choice of humans. I have chosen to sin, you have chosen to sin, etc. That is very offensive to God. Why would we sin against our creator? God still loves us, and He sent Jesus to die for us. If you believe that and accept him into your life you will become a Christian and you will progressively sin less and less as the Holy Spirit will affect your life.

Now, the big question You guys are asking, "does God love gays?" I'd say of course. God loves everybody. He may not love what they do. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is a new testament verse you should consider. Sexual sins are on the level as stealing or being a jerk. Everyone has sinned, though. If you become a Christian, you will want to stop stealing and sinning in general, and will get progressively better, but not perfect until heaven.

That's my take on it. I might be wrong, and I wasn't trying to offend anybody. After death we will all find out these type of issues.

Or not.

Needless to say, I disagree with many of Tyler's points, but I'm glad he shared his view.

OhioStater said:

Being a Christian also has nothing to do with Leviticus, or the bible, or going to a building once, twice, or three times a week.

It's personal.

Just out of sheer curiosity and because there aren't enough cans of worms all over the place: In your opinion, what role does a community of faith have in "being Christian"?

I'm assuming here that by a community of faith you are talking about some type of organization (i.e., church). But I might be misinterpreting what you mean. So based off that, I would say...

A great deal, if that's what it means to you. I feel zero desire to attend a service of any kind, or gather with any type of group of other people who share in my beliefs; at least on a regular basis. That said, I'm sure it means a great deal to a large number of people. In fact, it's obvious that it does.

That's what I meant when I said it was personal.

As a therapist, I know that belonging to a church or religious organization can be an important source of social and emotional support for a family, a couple, or an individual, especially when that is all there is for that person.

In the same context, however, I find organized religions (denominations, etc.) as highly self-serving, close-minded, narrow-thinking chasms that promote control through shame, guilt, and fear. I find it no mistake that the "tree of knowledge" was a source of evil. I could re-share a poignant personal story about my experiences growing up in a Lutheran church if you like; it's buried somewhere in an old Chik-fil-A thread I believe.

All that said, everyone has a right to ascribe to whatever religion they choose. I could not care less. If it makes you feel better, go for it...as long as it does nt infringe on the rights of your fellow man/woman.

The proscriptions in the Old Testament make absolute sense to me on a public health level. When there were relatively few people on the planet, you need guidelines to keep people healthy, at least until they've made it past their prime reproductive years.

The New Testament, thanks to "Providence" ;~), perhaps, came along at about the right time in history where we no longer needed to be concerned about the survival of the species, we needed to be more concerned about how we treated each other, and the planet itself. Jesus spoke frequently about how we treat each other, don't recall him saying much about tattoos, pigs, and homosexuality. It was a New Dawn for humankind, and new "rules" were needed.

Since then, we have pretty much fouled the nest, so to speak, and it might be time for a strong proclamation that we are currently running at about 140-150% of the Earth's resource capacity. We passed "unsustainable" almost fifty years ago. Treating each other decently requires that we have sufficient resources; we can see historically that shortages of food, water, etc., have almost universally had conflict when people's lives are threatened by hunger.

As always, I'm willing to be convinced that I need to think about our situation differently...but you'd need to bring a really sound argument.

Edit: I am sorry to hear about your experiences. That really sucks. For what it's worth and recognizing that I don't know the details, I apologize on behalf of organized religion. As often as not, we are hypocritical, judgmental, selfish, and just plain a-holes.

OhioStater said:

In the same context, however, I find organized religions (denominations, etc.) as highly self-serving, close-minded, narrow-thinking chasms that promote control through shame, guilt, and fear.

All?