Gay Marriage at Cedar Point: Please help us!

No Clint, you're not right. Its your opinion, just as it's mine but I prefer to follow my own rules and I am proud to do so for I do not dictate to others that they live according to my standards or beliefs.

I have no beef with people living according to theirs rules in any way, I just want to be afforded the same respect - you have your belief system and live by it but stop interfering in mine.

And this is where I will leave it because srguing on the interet really is pointless.

Best. Jim.

I'm not interfering with your belief system in any way. I've stated quite the opposite in every thing I've posted.

So you don't agree that people should be allowed to have their own beliefs, as long as their actions don't affect others?

I can not nor will I ever agree with that. Say I'm wrong all you want, but telling me I have to believe one way or the other is dangerous.

PS just to be clear, my opinion is as its always been- Governments should allow the same civil rights to everyone.
Marriage is something the Government should never have started regulating as it was a religious institution.
Being gay is not a choice and two people of the same gender should have the same rights under the government as to people of opposite genders.
Governments nor the majority should ever dictate religion or beliefs of any doctrine or denomination.

I'm not religious whatsoever, but I appreciate Ian Anderson's summation of god: "He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays."

Andy,

No, certainly not all. In fact, we've been lucky to have found some great examples to the contrary. Unfortunately, though, I would say "most"; at least based off my own experiences.

Modern Christianity suffers from the same problem that Muslim faith has. That is, the radical extremists make the loudest noises. It doesn't help at all that somehow the word Republican has become synonymous with Christian (at least the loud, ultra-conservative form) in the political sphere.

I have no doubt that there is a great number of what I would call "contemporary/moderate" Christians roaming around. In fact, let's just stay on the gay marriage issue as an example. Last month, I attended a same-sex marriage in a church (Methodist)...a church that has a lesbian woman as its lead pastor. It's hands-down the most inviting, warm, communal church I have ever experienced, and if I did feel the need to attend somewhere, that would be it.

I realized after I made my post that it most likely came off as a judgmental and extreme on my own part, and that was not the intent.

And there's no need to apologize on behalf of anyone. Even as a child (I was 10ish) I realized that these people, who called themselves leaders in the church, had it all wrong.

I'm very hopeful for change. In fact, I have no doubt it's coming, whether a great many people are ready for it or not. Change is possible and inevitable.

I was excited to read a reply on this subject from Tyler, because he represents a younger generation of Christians. Many younger people feel like the whole gay thing is not such a big deal. I have faith that this will not be such a controversial topic in years to come.

So, according to Tyler, homosexuals are just jerks or akin to thieves. It's all cool, progressive-minded brothers and sisters!

Point taken, but I'd take being the same as a jerk or a thief who can be forgiven rather than an evil, demonic-possessed oppressor of Christians everywhere who causes God to allow earthquakes, tornadoes, and terrorist attacks, who will burn in Hell for all of eternity for their lack of rejecting their sexuality. It's a start.

Please keep in mind that Westboro Baptist Church is a weak representation of Christianity as a whole, because your post struck me as a reference to them. I think it was OhioStater who said that the extreme fringes of a religion often become the face of that religion no matter how much of a minority they are within said religion. Anybody who gets even the slightest introduction to Christianity should know that hating anyone flies in the face of everything Christ represents.

My post was not only inspired by the WBC, but also popular TV evangelists like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. Many high-profile "Christian Leaders" go all crazy-sounding on the subject. Opinionated "news" asses like Bill O'Reilly also get in on the anti-gay action.

LostKause said:
I was excited to read a reply on this subject from Tyler, because he represents a younger generation of Christians. Many younger people feel like the whole gay thing is not such a big deal. I have faith that this will not be such a controversial topic in years to come.

For my interpretation of the Bible homosexuality is sin. Sin is a big deal to God. I'm not saying that Good doesn't love gay people, but sin is sin. It requires forgiveness and repentance just as any other sin does. I've heard of gay people who became Christians and still went into their old ways time to time because you don't become instantly perfect right after Christianity begins in your life. You become instantly perfect when you die. For example, ever since I became a Christian, I have sinned. Disobeying my parents, hating mean kids at school, and being jealous of rich kids are just a few. Every time, though, I feel bad about it. I don't think any sin is not a big deal. More importantly, God hates every sin, but that doesn't stop Him from loving us.

Travis, I'm sure it wasn't just them to whom you were referring. I just know that they're probably the most obvious example, and I just feel compelled to clarify that what they believe is a pretty hateful (and I'd also say very wrong) interpretation of God's Word that seems to fly in the face of everything Christianity actually represents.

I do want to apologize for steering the conversation into probably the most intense discussion I've ever read on Coasterbuzz after what was probably an overreaction to the loss of chicken. My sincerest apologies to anyone who has been in any way offended by the fallout.

invy that is just pure music to my ears, I could not have said it any better myself.

LostKause said:

Many younger people feel like the whole gay thing is not such a big deal. I have faith that this will not be such a controversial topic in years to come.

I truly believe this is the case. Each generation seems to have more tolerance than the last. My kids are aged 19 and 21. From what I can see they are very tolerant of others. They see no problems with gay marriage. I hope that my parenting may have played a role in that. Probably more a factor of cultural evolution.

I'm very open minded and accepting of others. It's interesting for me to think back on my family and racism. I started college in 1978. My freshman roommate was black. We were the only inter-racial roommates that stuck together the entire year. The blacks wanted black roommates as much as the whites. I personally blame disco.

My father is a racist. His twin brother also is. My dad hates Obama - because he's a democrat and he's black.

My grandparents crossed religious lines when they married. My grandfather was Danish/Lutheran; my grandmother was Irish/Catholic. You just didn't do such things 100 years ago. Neither family was happy and my grandparents were ostracized by their families for marrying outside their ethnic/religious groups.

I was a child during the civil rights movement, but was too young to understand what was going on. When I watch history programs from those times, it might as well be from the pre-Civil War era. I can't believe that during my lifetime there still were separate drinking fountains for whites and "coloreds." I can't wrap my mind around that.

Gay rights are to my children's generation that civil rights were to mine. It is so obvious, how could someone think differently. It's a matter of cultural evolution. However, it's extremely sad that it takes the passing of a generation that the obvious becomes such.

Invy already went where I was going to go. Your interpretation of the Bible is wholly irrelevant if you don't care about the religion in the first place. That point always seems to get lost in these discussions. And to bring it full circle, in a nation that isn't supposed to mix religion into government, it's not supposed to be legislated on everyone.

Here's a novel thought. Why is marriage something that needs to be recognized by the government? Why are two married people given special privileges and tax breaks by the government just because they promised to only have sex with each other? The whole system is illogical; it discriminates against single people, but since there's no changing it, it might as well be fair to all the orientations.

This is the libertarian's argument.

Sws, is this tolerance a good thing? I agree that it exists, but ever since the early 1900's, people haven't cared much for others as a new wave of selfishness occurred. People no longer care if their actions hurt others as more war, previously unacceptable entrainment, and religious avoidance had started. People are making themselves god and living for themselves. The church is making compromises in their doctrine so the they doesn't offend people who disagree with the Bible. At the same time of this happening, an emergence of apocalyptic literature has emerged along with predictions of end of the world stuff going on. Then, natural disasters have been going on at the same time. Isn't it fishy that tolerance to sin, wars, apocalyptic thinking, and natural disasters have been increasing at the same time? No. The Bible indeed predicted that these would happen 2,000 years ago. Humanity isn't evolving culturally, they are getting worse.

In the book of Timothy, it talks about the downfall of morality leading to end times. Here is 2 Timothy 3:1-4: Realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.

That sounds scarily like today's culture. Then, the fact that 2 Timothy 4:3-4 talks about comprising Christians having their teaching affected leading up to the end times: The time will come when they [professing Christians] will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.

This has been happening for about 100 years also, and it is because Christians want to fit in and deceive themselves into thinking that evolution or homosexuality are principals that the Bible encourages, promotes, or fits with.

More and more humanity will falter because of religious compromises and exclusion. The Bible has predicted this. While writing this post that took 40 minutes to write, I found this website that has all these Biblical predictions that were correct dealing with the end. It's quite interesting even if your heart won't believe in God. http://www.pretribulation.com/signs.htm

Wow. That is about the most ridiculous use of religion I have seen in a while. (Which I could disprove in scripture AND out of scripture, but I doubt Tyler would care). And yet, in spite of my complete and utter disagreement with Tyler's interpretations of the bible, I still affirm Tyler's right to vote for legislation based on that interpretation. I'm just glad that the majority of people don't see it the way he does.

Oddly, it seems like the left (which I count myself a member of, for the most part) is against intolerance in all forms except against the "right/majority/republicans/rich white Christian males." For some reason it seems okay to vilify them and generalize about them.

On an unrelated point:

Is tolerance always good? The one part of Tyler's post I do agree with is we seem to be more tolerant of selfishness, entitlement, shirking responsibility, amorality...

If George Orwell was here, I'm sure he would say, "Tolerance good, intolerance baaaaaad." I don't believe for a second that there has been an increase in natural disasters, which are cyclical, unpredictable and have nothing to do with human morality. In the age of the instantaneous spread of information, we are immediately aware of things happening on the opposite side of the world. As far as the Bible predicting current events, I put as much faith in that as I do in Nostradamus predictions and Rambaldi artifacts.

I got a little of topic. I don't care if you disagree with me. I believe my interpretation of the Bible is more literal than the average Christian. My church is that way, too. I understand that a literal interpretation isn't popular these days, but Imo it is the correct way to interpret the Bible in most cases.

I'm big into prophecy in the Bible being true as it has been throughout history. Unfortunately, my school, for the most part, falls into the conforming with society idea, and teaches unbiblical principles such as evolution as fact. That frustrates me, but my 40 minute scripture journey reassured me that God knew about that happening awhile ago, and He is still in control.

This scripture journey has left me spiritually energized, for I haven't been reading my Bible more than once a week other than church lately. I feel so much closer to God after a half hour plus in scripture. Even in a rotting world, I have Someone who is bigger than all of it and carries me through it when times get tough. That is something I know you can relate to, Andy.

Andy, what kind of church do you pastor? I'm just curious.

Edit:
Sws, the Bible predicted Israel becoming a nation again near the end times. Well, that happened near the beginning of the beginning moral depletion of humanity which was also predicted to happen during end t. There are to many prophecies correct to not believe the Bible. Please go back to my previous link, read everything with an open heart, and read the contents of this link: http://www.raptureforums.com/Signs/50reasons.cfm

Remember that the Bible was written thousands of years ago.

Tyler Boes said:

I don't care if you disagree with me. I believe my interpretation of the Bible is more literal than the average Christian.

How do you take the bible literally when the first part of it claims an eye for an eye and the second part has Jesus telling us to turn the other cheek.