Does Six Flags Neglect Parks
SPOILED markets:
SFGAdv: NYCmetro (21,199,865) + PhillyMetro (6,188,463)
SFMM: LAmetro (16,373,645)
SFGAm: ChicagoLand (9,157,540) + MilwaukeeMetro (1,689,572)
SFA (only because they've had four coasters in 3 years): DC/Bmore/NoVA (7,608,070)
SFWoA: ClevelandMetro (2,945,831) + Pburghmetro (2,358,695)
SFoT: Dallas/Ft. Worth (5,221,801)
SFoG: ATL (4,112,198)Now compare that to the NEGLECTED Markets
SFEG: Denvermetro (2,581,506)
SFKK: Louisville (1,025,598) + Cincy (1,979,202)
SFDL: Rochester (1,098,201) + Buffalo/Niagra (1,170,111)
This is a really wierd way of drawing things. Where to begin: the bigger the park, the larger the drawing power, and the wider you can draw the circle for it.
CP: Cleveland + Toledo + Columbus + Detroit (8-9 million)
PKI: Cincinnati + Dayton + Columbus + Indianapolis + Louisville + Lexington (7-8 million)
SFKK: Louisville (1 million)
SFWoA: Cleveland + Columbus (4 million)
Kennywood: Pittsburgh + eastern Columbus ( 2-3 million)
Also, remember the competition: Cincinnati will NEVER be a market for SFKK because of PKI. Pittsburg will NEVER be a market for SFWoA because of Kennywood. As for the others, I bet that SFMM has a big enough size that it draws people even from San Fransisco. (correct me if I'm wrong).
Now I could be wrong, let me know if you work at any of these parks, but this is probably very accurate, that markets for bigger parks are much wider than markets for smaller parks. For example, I work at PKI, and if I ask someone where they are from, 1 in 2 will answer Indianapolis, Lexington, Louisville, or Columbus. About 1 in 4 are from Cincinnati or Dayton (locals). Cleveland will be thrown in occasionally, as will other small towns in Indiana and Ohio. But if you ask 1000 people, about 20 are from out of the country, and you will get about 30-40 states represented. Bigger parks really do bring people in from all over, and although the overlap from coast to coast is minor, anyone who lives in Ohio knows that CP and PKI compete with each other, despite being 5 hours apart by car. I have figured this information out from 2 years of working there and asking everyone I can where they are from, so this is fairly accurate information.
For SFEG, there are few people who live within driving distance of it that are not in the Denver or Co. Springs area. As opposed to SFoT, with many cities to the south; SFA, with Richmond and Phili within driving distance; SFGA, Indianapolis, Springfield, Peoria, etc.; SFMM, San Diego, the list goes on.
What is my point? Markets are not always what they appear. Although 30,000 people live in Sandusky, it will not a viable market for SFWoA until it closes the gap between it and CP. And no matter how big the market is, local competition and potential for growth will ultimately determine the size and frequency of additions for SF.
As you can tell with Paramount and Cedar Fair, market size does not mean anything. PKI gets the biggest share of investment despite the fact that PKD and PGA are in much bigger markets (PGA's market is as big as Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky combined). And CP gets the lion's share despite the fact that Dorney and Knot's have much larger markets. And which chains are more successful? Only time will tell, but rumors of Six Flags money woes abound, and Cedar Fair won that investor's dividend award, so I think that the results speak for themselves and Six Flags will, in the long run, be the worse off for their decisions. Maybe when they stop trying to add parks and instead work on existing ones they will get better. Once again, only time will tell.
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Ohio - Coaster capital of the world
*** This post was edited by quailroberts on 7/24/2002. ***
*** This post was edited by quailroberts on 7/24/2002. ***
2Hostyl said:
BassHedz: But your argument about the difference in appeal between DL and SFMM only BOLSTERS the decision to put more coasters in SFMM. Anyone who wishes to go head-to-head with the mouse in themeing is *ambitious* at the least and more realistically a bit foolish (yes even IOA). No, nobody is going to "do Disney" better than Disney. Therefore, you have to do something different (IOA recognized this, hence TIHC and DD). SFMM wants the market "too old" for Disney and so attracts them with coasters.
Well, if they already have the market cornered, there really is no competition then, is there? Sure, there are other reasons why SFMM would want to be the "coaster capital" of the world, but feeling the crunch form local parks is definitely not one of them. It's like comparing In-N-Out to McDonald's. Both serve the same kind of food, but can both peacefully coexist without interfering with the others' operation.
RubberDucky said:
Now look at SFMM, since 1998, they have gotten Riddlers Revenge, Ninja, Goliath, Deja Vu, Goliath Jr.(Doesn't really count), and X.
NINJA? 98? More like 88.
Outkast: I'm not bitter that SFMM has 15 coasters now, I'm bitter that SFAW could've had 15 coasters several years ago, if corporate had built new coasters for US as often as they have for SFMM! That park gets about 5 new coasters to every 1 that we get, but we don't even get NEW coasters like they do, we just get hand-me-downs from other parks, and clones of stuff in other parks! And now SFMM is getting NEW coasters 3 at a time, while we still get NOTHING! I don't care how many people live in LA, there is NOTHING that can justify the way that they OVERSPOIL that park to me, as long as my poor home park continues to get NOTHING!
2Hostyl: AMEN, brotha! I can't figure out why SFAW doesn't get treated the same way that SFOT & SFOG do either! It just doesn't make ANY sense at all to me!
Most of y'all here keep beating the same old drum about how SFAW's only competition is other SF parks, well HELLO people, SFOT & SFFT's only competition is other SF parks too, but you don't see THEM getting skipped over for new coasters more than every other year, now do you? Sure, SFFT is pretty close to Sea World, but that's a WATERPARK that happens to have a couple of coasters, hardly competition! Yeah, SFOT is a flagship park with a bunch of greedy investors that threaten to sue every time that corporate TRIES to give SFAW what it so desperately NEEDS, but when will all the freakin' madness finally end?
SFOG is like SFOT jr., they have a bunch of greedy investors to make sure that they don't get screwed, so SFAW's biggest problem is that they DON'T have any investors to stick up for them! It has nothing to do with a "poor market" for the sacred ROI that some of you are so convinced that we can't provide here, Houston is the 4th largest city in the nation for crying out loud, and most of y'all act like it's the middle of freakin' nowhere, just because it doesn't have a dozen other theme parks stacked up on top of it like most of the other parks do! We're no more landlocked here than Cedar Point is on a freakin' island!
Now, whoever said that Six Flags CARES about their other parks, can you tell me which of their other parks is getting new coasters 3 at a time? Which of their other parks have broken more than a dozen world records? Do you have any idea exactly when another Six Flags park is gonna take the crown away from SFMM? That's what I thought! If they care so much about their other parks, then why do most of them just sit there, while SFMM goes NUTS?
And as for SFDL, it's just like I said in my original post: Six Flags comes to town, builds a world class ride or two, and then they BAIL! Why else would they not be building there anymore? They'll abandon everyone else the same way that they abandoned SFAW shortly after they bought it! Ever since they bought out Magic Mountain, they know very little else! Build, build, build, BLESS the mighty Magic Mountain some more, we MUST break all the world records there, and SCREW everyone else while we're at it! It has NOTHING to do with Disney, Cedar Fair, or anything else, it's just their own freakin' agenda to spoil southern California TO FILTH! How else can you explain how the ORIGINAL Six Flags theme park LOST it's "crown jewel" title to SFMM? SFOT got ONE new coaster for their 40th Anniversary, and SFMM got THREE new coasters for their 30th Anniversary! Anybody here care to explain the justice in THAT? And Magic Mountain has only been in the Six Flags chain for about 20 years! SFOT freakin' STARTED the chain, and this is the thanks they get for it?
SCREW Gary Story! The man is EVIL! Bring the BEST rides back to TEXAS, where they freakin' BEGAN!
*** This post was edited by Iron Draggon on 7/24/2002. ***
Just a thought, but Magic Mountain's coaster spree was not as expensive as everything thinks.
X - 14 mill
Deja Vu - I've heard dirt cheap - 4 mill?
Goliath Junior - cheap
They probably spend less money than CP did on Millenium Force, plus it bought the Six Flags name publicity.
And about Texas - While SFOT has gotten some coasters, they are on a pace with other parks like SFGam and SFGadv. SFFT is not opening coasters every year, and does not even have an inverted. SF is building coasters where they see the most return value, whether it be regaining lost crowds or expanding parks.
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Mike
www.mikerobinson.net
As much as I would love SFAW to get a new 'coaster, I would rather see the park cleaned up, and the rides repainted. A new 'coaster would be great for the park as I would love to ride something new, but I think that the park would be more popular if it was remodeled or something.
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I Survived Millennium Force!
1.) Millennium Force 2.) Steel Eel 3.) Raptor 4.) Mantis 5.) Magnum XL-200
Basshedz: Check the Magic Mountain site, it was built in 1998.
mdrcoast: Actually, it is "So Big, So Close", They even said it about SFEG! They got the close part right...
RubberDucky,
The one thing I think we can all agree that Six Flags neglects, is accuracy on their websites! ;) Check out the SFMM Info page at RCDB...Ninja WAS built in 1988
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Posting, "Me too" like some brain dead AOLer. I ought to to the world a favor, and cap you like old yeller...
I noticed something, a lot of people are mentioning how certain parks dont get a new "coaster" every year or every other year. However, most parks get family attractions, like the Scooby Doo Dark Rides, flat rides, etc. Seems that most enthusiasts think, no coaster and new flat ride = getting screwed. Parks aren't always about thrills, they need to cater to families as well. For example, SFDL got a Shoot the Chutes this year. Its a new ride, which go over well with a lot of people who like to cool off on a hot day. However, enthusiasts are like, we haven't gotten a coaster since 1999, and now we get a Shoot The Chutes. Whining and complaining is all I ever see. Remember, parks look at bringing in the general public, not pleasing enthusiasts. But from what i see, if its not a new coaster, the complaining doesn't stop.
So if your park gets a new ride, no matter what it is, you should not complain. Yes coasters are nice, but they can't come all the time. And if you dont like the new ride that a park puts in, then dont ride it. Or if you are mad at a park for not putting in a new coaster every year, then dont visit the park. Just dont go whining and complaining when a park is installing rides for everyone and not just the thrillseekers.
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Take a Virtual Ride:
http://badnitrus.coasterbuzz.com
Mike "Viper" Semtak
What I love is all the people who complain about Six Flags and yet continue to visit the parks. If you don't like the way their run, how clean they are, how their employees act, or how often they get new attractions, STOP GOING!
If I see a lousy movie, I don't go see it again and then complain that it was still lousy.
Moosh
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"There's nothing sweeter than a bowling ball with a liquid center" - Homer Simpson
Mamoosh - Stop making sense.
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"Look outside, I know that you'll recognize it's summertime." - The Flaming Lips "It's Summertime (throbbing orange pallbearers)"
As I have said before numerous times, I am NOT complaining about how SF neglects SFEG, I am simply trying to prove that it does. This is not a desperate cry for a new coaster or anything, I am simply proving a point. As I have said before, I would run the chain the same way SF does. I am just trying to prove a point.
chris, we were talking about the B-52s, now you bring up the Talking Heads....I love the musical inclinations 'round hyeah...;)
Viper423 said:
Remember, parks look at bringing in the general public, not pleasing enthusiasts.
"Pleasing enthusiasts"... is that even possible?
*** This post was edited by SLFAKE on 7/24/2002. ***
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Take a Virtual Ride:
http://badnitrus.coasterbuzz.com
Mike "Viper" Semtak
Gator & Chris - I once saw the B-52's open for Talking Heads! Nirvana? Yes, and I don't mean the band.
RubberDucky - I wasn't singling you out specifically, it was more a general comment to the many who will diss Six Flags as easily as they hand their season pass to the employee at the front gate.
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"There's nothing sweeter than a bowling ball with a liquid center" - Homer Simpson
I think the moral of the story is that AstroWorld and lowbudget friends don't need a lot of new rides because they have nearly nonexistent competition.
And in the case of AstroWorld, the next closest "big" parks are all Six Flags parks, with the exception of Sea World Texas in San Antonio.
That is a totally different situation than what SFWoA faces. They have to deal with immediate competition with Cedar Point and to some extent, PKI. The idea there is that if Cedar Point builds a new ride and SFWoA does not, guess where the crowds go? That just isn't the case at Elitch Gardens or Astroworld.
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Xcelerator-
0-82 in 2.3 seconds! =Wow!
Closed topic.
