Does Six Flags Neglect Parks
Iron Draggon said:
...Houston is the 4th largest city in the nation for crying out loud, and most of y'all act like it's the middle of freakin' nowhere, just because it doesn't have a dozen other theme parks stacked up on top of it like most of the other parks do! We're no more landlocked here than Cedar Point is on a freakin' island!
Did anyone else find that statement a bit funny? Cedar Point is landlocked, because it's a freekin island? Isn't the defenition of "landlocked" that it has no water on its borders at all? To think Lake Erie, which is directly connected to the Atlantic Ocean via the Great Lakes by the way, is subject to "landlocking" is pretty neat. The day islands around the world become landlocked will most certainly be an interesting one...
(Post #100 on this topic, wooty-woot!)
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Crito, ergo sum.
*** This post was edited by staticman00 on 7/24/2002. ***
I spent the weekend in St. Louis and I think their park is a dump. Maybe the heat played a role in my bitterness, maybe it was the fact that every ride was busted at some point (usually when I was in line), maybe it was the strange odor (what's the name of that disorder that causes people to smell like hot garbage), maybe it was the poor attempt at landscaping, maybe it was the cheap theming (I would rather have no theming than cheap theming), maybe it was the rowdy people in line (I remember the words of my mother "don't make me pull over"). Either way they're going to have to add something big to get me back there.
On the bright side I totally enjoyed the beating that The Boss put on me.
quailroberts said:
"This is a really wierd way of drawing things. Where to begin: the bigger the park, the larger the drawing power, and the wider you can draw the circle for it.
(snip)
SFWoA: Cleveland + Columbus (4 million)Kennywood: Pittsburgh + eastern Columbus ( 2-3 million)
Also, remember the competition: Cincinnati will NEVER be a market for SFKK because of PKI. Pittsburg will NEVER be a market for SFWoA because of Kennywood. As for the others, I bet that SFMM has a big enough size that it draws people even from San Fransisco. (correct me if I'm wrong). "
Why do you believe this? Why is it so unreasonable to believe that people would leave Pburg in droves to visit SFWoA? Operation of the park aside it seems a perfectly logical move to market to Pburg. I mean if KennyWood would market to Baltimore which sits in a hotbed of parks FOUR HOURS away, why would SFWoA NOT try and grab some Pburgh folks? I dont think people are *that* loyal to KennyWood that they wouldnt at least check out this BIGGER park (which also goes against your theory).
I also dont see why it is such a strech to believe that Cincy people would avoid SFKK simply because of PKI. People from Chicago drive PAST SFGAm to get to Big Chief's. People from Richmond drive PAST PKD to get to the "little" SFA. No, I dont think I buy your theory at all. Unless you can give me specific reasons why you feel 'burghers will diss SFWoA and Cincinites will make SFKK talk to the hand, I think I'll keep that opinion.
I'm still not sure that fully comprehend your post, but for the most part I feel that your comparisons to Cedar Fair and Paramount parks are irrelavent because they are not working on the "So Big, So Close" model that SFI is. It is well understood that CP is a destination park like Walt Disney's World and so is exempt from these "rules". As for PKI, I do not purport to know what is going on with them. This is a discussion of SF investment behavior so that is all I am commenting on. You may indeed be correct about everything you said.
BassHedz: But that year that X, Delay Ja Va, and G Junior were supposed to open was the same year that Disney attempted to cash in on SFMM's market with the big thrill rides like Maliboomer and Cali Screamin' at the new DCA park. One could reasonably conclude that the addition of the trinty was a DEFENSE move, stating that no one can out THRILL SF in SoCal.
and to the ElasticMallard: Unless you are privy to some PKS Annual Reports that I am not (as much as I am a fan of SFI, I only support them by buying their products not their stock) then you can say that you KNOW where the money is going. Hell for all I *know* SFEG could be in the red still from the move (I highly doubt this but I dont *know*). But if you *feel* money is being drained...well let's just stick with that? :)
lata,
jeremy
--who sooner or later will be dubbed an SF fanboy
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Long live Whizzer; 1976-2002...
I was in the Pittsburgh and Idlewild area for three days post-SRM and saw many SFWoA ads on TV. Trust me, the park is actively marketing to that area of Western PA.
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"There's nothing sweeter than a bowling ball with a liquid center" - Homer Simpson
RubberDucky said:
I don't think no new coaster=getting screwed. However, I do think that parks like SFEG get screwed over when they are giving a bunch of their money away to pay for their "brothers"(other parks) new toys.
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT AS A FACT. That is just a lame excuse as a solution to your personal problems by making yourself feel better about something! Damn!
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A CoasterForum Member
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*** This post was edited by kRaXLeRidAh on 7/24/2002. ***
*** This post was edited by kRaXLeRidAh on 7/24/2002. ***
Iron Draggon said:
Outkast: I'm not bitter that SFMM has 15 coasters now, I'm bitter that SFAW could've had 15 coasters several years ago, if corporate had built new coasters for US as often as they have for SFMM! That park gets about 5 new coasters to every 1 that we get, but we don't even get NEW coasters like they do, we just get hand-me-downs from other parks, and clones of stuff in other parks! And now SFMM is getting NEW coasters 3 at a time, while we still get NOTHING! I don't care how many people live in LA, there is NOTHING that can justify the way that they OVERSPOIL that park to me, as long as my poor home park continues to get NOTHING!
If you knew history you would know that unlike Magic Mountain, World of Adventures, and New England that had a contract when they came in with quite a purse that they would be receiving over the years, Astroworld did not come with that. Also, Astroworld came in the buisness with Six Flags right before the incorporation went into a big slump. Debt from Warner wasn't going to bring in giant scream machines to SFAW. SFAW came into the chain at a bad time and so SFAW suffered. Nobody said that the it would be fair.
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Lake Compounce-So Fresh and So Clean Clean
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TOGO!
SFA rules said:
Just a thought, but Magic Mountain's coaster spree was not as expensive as everything thinks.
X - 14 mill
Deja Vu - I've heard dirt cheap - 4 mill?
Goliath Junior - cheap
They probably spend less money than CP did on Millenium Force, plus it bought the Six Flags name publicity.
And about Texas - While SFOT has gotten some coasters, they are on a pace with other parks like SFGam and SFGadv. SFFT is not opening coasters every year, and does not even have an inverted. SF is building coasters where they see the most return value, whether it be regaining lost crowds or expanding parks.
You were obviously misinformed. That $14 million was just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo some freak went to make up so he could tell someone the answer to a question.
Arrow summed up between $6-$8 million for the X fourth dimension project and it ended up at $24.X million dollars. And $4 million dollars for Déjà Vu? $4 million dollars barely gets an Invertigo put on your property. We're talking more like $8-$9 million. And yes Goliath JR is "cheap" if you consider that it is a junior coaster, but nontheless expensive. And don't forget to dish in the additional $2-$4 million for Thrill Shot.
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PT300 said:
Whew! Settle down Sr. Bold aka Sr. SFMM. Who really cares? You have 15 coasters in your backyard, why not go ride them? Time could be better spent than yelling to the computer.
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TOGO!
Well, I don't reckon he can jump the back fence in his yard and he'll be on Magic Mountain premises. For all you know, a 2 hour drive to the park for him/her is quite giddy enough. He can voice his opinion as he wishes.
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staticman00 said:
Iron Draggon said:
...Houston is the 4th largest city in the nation for crying out loud, and most of y'all act like it's the middle of freakin' nowhere, just because it doesn't have a dozen other theme parks stacked up on top of it like most of the other parks do! We're no more landlocked here than Cedar Point is on a freakin' island!
Did anyone else find that statement a bit funny? Cedar Point is landlocked, because it's a freekin island? Isn't the defenition of "landlocked" that it has no water on its borders at all? To think Lake Erie, which is directly connected to the Atlantic Ocean via the Great Lakes by the way, is subject to "landlocking" is pretty neat. The day islands around the world become landlocked will most certainly be an interesting one...
(Post #100 on this topic, wooty-woot!)
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Crito, ergo sum.
*** This post was edited by staticman00 on 7/24/2002. ***
Are you joking? He didn't mean it literally. Which you obvoiusly took it for.
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BassHedz said:
2Hostyl said:
BassHedz: But your argument about the difference in appeal between DL and SFMM only BOLSTERS the decision to put more coasters in SFMM. Anyone who wishes to go head-to-head with the mouse in themeing is *ambitious* at the least and more realistically a bit foolish (yes even IOA). No, nobody is going to "do Disney" better than Disney. Therefore, you have to do something different (IOA recognized this, hence TIHC and DD). SFMM wants the market "too old" for Disney and so attracts them with coasters.
Well, if they already have the market cornered, there really is no competition then, is there? Sure, there are other reasons why SFMM would want to be the "coaster capital" of the world, but feeling the crunch form local parks is definitely not one of them. It's like comparing In-N-Out to McDonald's. Both serve the same kind of food, but can both peacefully coexist without interfering with the others' operation.
Then think of it THIS way. Tourists usually spend a week or more, and usually no less than at least 2 or three days. And the thinking usually goes, while you're in the area, why not wander around a bit and see some popular and famous landmark and attractions?
So basically, in short, Six Flags Magic Mountain, Knott's Berry Farm, and Universal Studios Hollywood, if not competing with each other for customers, are feeding off each other's tourists that they individually have managed to draw in.
You know, sort of like stealing a piece of the king's pie.
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TOGO!
PT300 said:
So what? At least it's that close. What if you lived in Alaska? California has tons of parks, why do you act so spoiled?
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TOGO!
That would mean you would have a multi stop plane flight everytime you go to an amusement park. I'd rather just ride the Merry-go-round and Psychodrome at Alaskaland.
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Lake Compounce-So Fresh and So Clean Clean
I had no idea this topic would be that popular!
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I Survived Millennium Force!
1.) Millennium Force 2.) Steel Eel 3.) Raptor 4.) Mantis 5.) Magnum XL-200
Does anyone notice that it's not just the quantity but also the quality of the rides that SF chooses to install at their favored parks?
Take SFGRADV for example,they keep getting the B&M's while SFA keeps getting the vekomas,SFGRADV does'nt need too many more rides seeing as how they already have 70+ rides already.
Also I think the only reason SF doesn't sell off their less favored parks is because they are a source of income to fund the larger parks that SF favors,SFKK,SFEG,SFAW and SFDL are being used as cash cows to finance the spending for SFMM,SFGAM.SFGRADV and SFNE,that's SF's biggest problem they've got too many parks and not enough in the budget to cover them all.
I'd say the best solution would be if SF takes a break from their favored parks and focus on the smaller parks alternating every other year to provide rides for each park.
For example the parks that were passed over for rides/attractions in 02-SFA,SFKK,SFGRADV SFGRAM should get something for 03 and then in 04 those parks can take an off year so the remaining parks in the chain can get something.
The one thing I can't stand about SF is they are using one parks income to finance expenditures for the others,I don't want my money spent at SFA going toward SFGRADV's next coaster when it should go towards something for SFA.
Take a look at CF and Paramount,they only operate 5 parks each versus SF's 39, CF and Paramount have fewer parks to manage therefore most if not all of their parks recieve at least some sort of improvements every year or so.
Then there's the whole SFOT,SFOG situation in which the park value was purposely lowered as a result of not making expenditures,maybe people in the neglected markets, SFKK,SFEG,SFAW etc. should petition SF to make improvements or face some sort of legal action similar to the SFOT,SFOG situation.
First of all, Six Flags Parks don't "lend" each other money. If Six Flags Astroworld makes money then they keep it. There profit will not be transfered to another park. If Six Flags parks traded money, then how would they keep there own parks up? Six Flags INC does recieve money from there parks, but they do not say "Lets take the money that Great America turned in and send it to Magic Mountain"
Somebody must of brought that up because they ran out of ideas why Six Flags does not remeber some of there parks.
In my opinion, Six Flags does not pick which parks get new attractions. The parks make the decision themselfs.
Six Flags is helping both Six Flags Over Georgia and Six Flags Over Texas to some extent, but if they want to purchase them in 2012 or whenever, they have to.
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"The fish are eating the guest, sir
BATWING FAN SFA said:
Does anyone notice that it's not just the quantity but also the quality of the rides that SF chooses to install at their favored parks?
Take SFGRADV for example,they keep getting the B&M's while SFA keeps getting the vekomas,SFGRADV does'nt need too many more rides seeing as how they already have 70+ rides already.
Also I think the only reason SF doesn't sell off their less favored parks is because they are a source of income to fund the larger parks that SF favors,SFKK,SFEG,SFAW and SFDL are being used as cash cows to finance the spending for SFMM,SFGAM.SFGRADV and SFNE,that's SF's biggest problem they've got too many parks and not enough in the budget to cover them all.
I'd say the best solution would be if SF takes a break from their favored parks and focus on the smaller parks alternating every other year to provide rides for each park.
For example the parks that were passed over for rides/attractions in 02-SFA,SFKK,SFGRADV SFGRAM should get something for 03 and then in 04 those parks can take an off year so the remaining parks in the chain can get something.
The one thing I can't stand about SF is they are using one parks income to finance expenditures for the others,I don't want my money spent at SFA going toward SFGRADV's next coaster when it should go towards something for SFA.
Take a look at CF and Paramount,they only operate 5 parks each versus SF's 39, CF and Paramount have fewer parks to manage therefore most if not all of their parks recieve at least some sort of improvements every year or so.
Then there's the whole SFOT,SFOG situation in which the park value was purposely lowered as a result of not making expenditures,maybe people in the neglected markets, SFKK,SFEG,SFAW etc. should petition SF to make improvements or face some sort of legal action similar to the SFOT,SFOG situation.
Oh, yeah I forgot, Roar, S:ROS, Batwing, Joker's Jinx, and Two Face are pieces of junk. Yeah I forgot that, there nothing because they're not B&Ms. Are you kidding, you guys got the treat of what was once tied as the world's tallest coaster. So it's not a B&M, I'd rateher have the Intiman hyper than B&M Speed coaster.
I easily say that I'd rather have Batwing up here than the mediocre and short Dark Knight.
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Lake Compounce-So Fresh and So Clean Clean
Dukeis- If all of SFEG's money has stayed with SFEG than they have one nice FULL bank account. Each year parks like SFEG give money to SF and only get a certain percent back. You and I both know it. If all of the money that parks make stays at the park than how the hell does SF keep buying new parks. Where do they get the money?
kRaXLeRidAh said:
Then think of it THIS way. Tourists usually spend a week or more, and usually no less than at least 2 or three days. And the thinking usually goes, while you're in the area, why not wander around a bit and see some popular and famous landmark and attractions?
So basically, in short, Six Flags Magic Mountain, Knott's Berry Farm, and Universal Studios Hollywood, if not competing with each other for customers, are feeding off each other's tourists that they individually have managed to draw in.
You know, sort of like stealing a piece of the king's pie.
Yeah, I understand, but do you think a family vacationing for a week in LA would spend EVERY SINGLE day at an amusement park? Other than us enthusiasts, I doubt anyone would make a cross country trip to go to SFMM. They would for Disneyland or Universal.
Closed topic.
