Does Six Flags Neglect Parks
SPOILED markets:
SFGAdv: NYCmetro (21,199,865) + PhillyMetro (6,188,463)
SFMM: LAmetro (16,373,645)
SFGAm: ChicagoLand (9,157,540) + MilwaukeeMetro (1,689,572)
SFA (only because they've had four coasters in 3 years): DC/Bmore/NoVA (7,608,070)
SFWoA: ClevelandMetro (2,945,831) + Pburghmetro (2,358,695)
SFoT: Dallas/Ft. Worth (5,221,801)
SFoG: ATL (4,112,198)
Now compare that to the NEGLECTED Markets
SFEG: Denvermetro (2,581,506)
SFKK: Louisville (1,025,598) + Cincy (1,979,202)
SFDL: Rochester (1,098,201) + Buffalo/Niagra (1,170,111)
This is a really wierd way of drawing things. Where to begin: the bigger the park, the larger the drawing power, and the wider you can draw the circle for it.
CP: Cleveland + Toledo + Columbus + Detroit (8-9 million)
PKI: Cincinnati + Dayton + Columbus + Indianapolis + Louisville + Lexington (7-8 million)
SFKK: Louisville (1 million)
SFWoA: Cleveland + Columbus (4 million)
Kennywood: Pittsburgh + eastern Columbus ( 2-3 million)
Don't forget Norcal:
SFMW, PGA, and SCBB - Bay Area (6 million), Sacramento (1.5 million), and Central Valley (1 million) = 8.5 million.
And yes, Bay Area people do frequent LA parks quite often, much more so than vice versa.
RubberDucky said:
Dukeis- If all of SFEG's money has stayed with SFEG than they have one nice FULL bank account. Each year parks like SFEG give money to SF and only get a certain percent back. You and I both know it. If all of the money that parks make stays at the park than how the hell does SF keep buying new parks. Where do they get the money?
It COULD possibly depend on how much the park makes. I mean, a little theme park like EG adding a 14 million dollar ride every year is for the most part impossible. You also have to take into count Ride Maintenence, Employee Pay Checks, Food Stock, Games Stock, Shop Stock and Taxes. Theme Parks don't just make money and spend it all as fast as they can.
If I know what you know, then we would have agreed in the first place.
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"The fish are eating the guest, sir
BassHedz said:
kRaXLeRidAh said:
Then think of it THIS way. Tourists usually spend a week or more, and usually no less than at least 2 or three days. And the thinking usually goes, while you're in the area, why not wander around a bit and see some popular and famous landmark and attractions?
So basically, in short, Six Flags Magic Mountain, Knott's Berry Farm, and Universal Studios Hollywood, if not competing with each other for customers, are feeding off each other's tourists that they individually have managed to draw in.
You know, sort of like stealing a piece of the king's pie.
Yeah, I understand, but do you think a family vacationing for a week in LA would spend EVERY SINGLE day at an amusement park? Other than us enthusiasts, I doubt anyone would make a cross country trip to go to SFMM. They would for Disneyland or Universal.
There you go, you sort of asked a question you can answer yourself. With three roller coasters in 2001, Magic Moutain was supposedly able to advertise "the most coasters in one park in the world" and that is quite an achievement and eye catching title. Something like that is worthy of any tourists notice. Even great enough to have them take a tour bus from (let's say Disneyland Resort) or rent a car to get there in less than an hour.
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A CoasterForum Member
www.thrillnetwork.com/boards/index.php?referrerid=211
After reading through this thread I figured out how Jeff could make a fortune and support every debt this website incurs:
"Coasterbuzz's Business Basics 101" - just charge a flat fee to explain the basics of running a company with the goal of profiting.
There are an awful lot of buzzers who have some pretty twisted (read: generally incorrect) views of the business world. Granted I don't proclaim myself to be a business genius but the lack of understanding coupled with the need to open mouth (or would that be the need to type) are making some buzzers look rather clueless. There's some...ahem...unique...ideas and theories presented here.
supermandl said:
I wish some of these people could go back to the 70's and and 80's when you where lucky to see a new coaster once every 7-10 years.
I used to say the same thing around here. No one wants to hear it. Sad, really, as I think the complaining will only get worse as things continue to "level out" over the next few years. 1996 - 2001 were for the most part unprecedented years for new coaster installations and I think the downswing has already begun to take shape.
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www.coasterimage.com
Dorney Park visits in 2002: 14
Just to correct some stuff said about Valleyfair during this topic. Our last coaster was in 1999 (Mad Mouse) 2000 We got Power Tower and a completely redone childrens section. (Rub a Dub Tubs Rock!) 2001 & 2002 we got umm on ride photos for Mild Thing, a corn stand and a paint job on High Roller and half of Wild Thing.
As for what somebody earlier asking where VF's Area 51 is its in the games section and was currently renamed Midway Gifts this last year. Valleyfair hasn't really gotten screwed over the last couple of years, it just seems that the park is holding off putting in filler rides for a while.
However because the park hasn't put in anything the last couple of years our attendance is down as we have nothing to bring the casual park goer from the Twin Cities back, and nothing for the local community to get stoked about. The reason Valleyfair hasn't gotten anything in the last two years had more to do with changes in the infrastructure at Valleyfair over the last 18 months then anything.
And to put this topic back on track, I actually feel sorry for Astroworld as its probably hard to recruit really good workers because the park hasn't done anything with itself in a while.
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Excalibur Team Lead 2002
kRaXLeRidAh said:
There you go, you sort of asked a question you can answer yourself. With three roller coasters in 2001, Magic Moutain was supposedly able to advertise "the most coasters in one park in the world" and that is quite an achievement and eye catching title. Something like that is worthy of any tourists notice. Even great enough to have them take a tour bus from (let's say Disneyland Resort) or rent a car to get there in less than an hour.
Yeah, but when I go to Magic Mountain, I rarely see the same video camera totin', Hawaii shirt, khaki shorts (with socks pulled all the way up), and Panama Jack hat wearin' tourists I see at Disneyland. Most of the crowd at Magic Mountain consists of teenagers and 20 somethings from LA and the Bay.
And like people mentioned before, Six Flags' slogan is "So Big, So Close." Most people who aren't in the know would assume that all Six Flags parks are similar. If there is one by their house, they wouldn't bother to visit one while on vacation. Shoot, sometimes I go to Marine World, Magic Mountain's closest neighbor, and I hear people commenting about not wanting to go to Magic Mountain because it's probably "exactly the same." Again, this is the GP talking. We all know better.
I have not seen any of the SFMM advertisements that mention that phrase you put up. They may use it in some small print ads, but they are not noticeable enough for people to pay much attention. Besides, like I already said, the family with a 3 and 5 year old going to see Minnie and Donald could care less about checking out "the world's first and only 4-D coaster," or "the world's tallest stand-up coaster."
Seems as though a lot of coaster enthusiasts are getting really greedy. If its not a B&M or an Intamin, they dont want it. Well, it isn't what enthusiasts want, its what the park wants to do to bring in people. Some years they put in a coaster, other years, they put in flat rides. But i have noticed that when flat rides go in, or a family ride for the matter, most enthusiats start to whine and complain saying, "well this park got this coaster, and all we got was a flat ride." Its all greed. Should be happy your park gets something. I mean, if you dont like the ride a park gets, then dont ride it, if you dont like the decisions the park makes, then dont visit it. But i wouldn't go around complaining about a park just because they aren't building what "YOU" want.
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Mike "Viper" Semtak
Just a note on the line of thought that people in western PA will not leave western PA (i.e. Kennywood) to go into Ohio (i.e. SFWoA)...
When I visited Kennywood, and a few weeks later Idlewild and Lakemont, I wore my Superman:Ride of Steel T from SFDL. I remember no fewer than 4 people making a comment to me (including the one ride op on Idlewild's Wild Mouse), ranging from "I love that ride" to "I can't wait to ride it on my day off". Granted, they were talking about a ride named Superman alright... but not Darien Lake's Ride of Steel. They saw the Superman logo on the front and naturally assumed that it was from their local SF park... Superman: Ultimate Escape at SFWoA.
Don't fool yourselves... just as we from eastern PA make the trip out to the western frontier to visit Kennywood, et al, those from western PA actually (and sit down for this one... it will come as a shock to many) cross the state line and go into Ohio (woah... really heading out west for that one) to visit other parks!
You see, Pennsylvania's are not as provincial as many people seem to think.
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I usually do not expect a very objective opinion if a coaster or park is part of the "user name"
Dukeis#1 said:
First of all, Six Flags Parks don't "lend" each other money. If Six Flags Astroworld makes money then they keep it. There profit will not be transfered to another park. If Six Flags parks traded money, then how would they keep there own parks up? Six Flags INC does recieve money from there parks, but they do not say "Lets take the money that Great America turned in and send it to Magic Mountain"
What is your source for that info? I don't know if it's right or wrong, I just find it hard to believe. But if it's from a reliable source I'll buy it...
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PLEASE READ: This post wasn't meant to offend or anger anyone; I apologize in advance if it does. So please don't post a reply just to rant about it. :)
You guys REALLY crack me up. You say money from SFEG goes to build coasters at SFGAm SFMM and SFGADv, yet wouldn't it makes more sense, being that these three parks probably rake in more money than the other park's combined, that they have there OWN net profits in which to build new rides? I don't think SFMM needs ANYTHING form SFEG or SFAW.
You guys just might have it all backwards, and are just looking for a scapegoat. Well, if you want a goat, look at those parks themselves.
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"Escuse me, can you tell me where the heck the Mystery Lodge is"?
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"There's nothing sweeter than a bowling ball with a liquid center" - Homer Simpson
Common Sense? Its good.
Anyway, what makes you think that adding a new ride at Astroworld or Elitch Gardens will actually help attendance significantly?
It won't because all the crowds that want to visit a theme park in Denver are going to Elitch Gardens. Sure, it will make some visit to see the new ride, but the idea is that the crowds aren't going to find another park because Elitch Gardens isn't adding anything new. I guess Lakeside is close, but in the eyes of the GP I'm sure it is a "lame park" with rickety wooden rides.
In the end, the idea is that Six Flags is a buisness, and they are out to make a profit. Spending millions of dollars on a park with no competition and low attendance will do very little to advance this goal.
*** This post was edited by CoasterFanMatt on 7/25/2002. ***
CFMatt - you, myself, and others have said the very same thing until blue in the face but you won't change what some people think. To them it "new coaster = love, no new coaster = screwed" and that's it, common sense [and business sense] be damned.
This discussion is going in circles, someone kill it quickly!
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"There's nothing sweeter than a bowling ball with a liquid center" - Homer Simpson
Actually CoasterfanMatt- I have noticed a increase in attendendence this year. Maybe it is just me, but I think the crowd has been quite a bit larger this year compared to last. Not to mention the advertising for SFEG this year has been everywhere and it hasn't stopped.
And even Lakeside is bringing in bigger crowds this year than usually. It is nothing compared to SFEG's crowd but it is good for the park.
Mamoosh: But if this thread is killed and becomes defunct, does that mean that someone will start up a petition to save it?
(sorry... we were talking about being spoiled in these threads... I couldn't resist)
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Kind of hard to take a post as objective if a park or coaster name is part of the "user name"
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Bake 'em away toys.
Just for the record, I DON'T go to SFAW more than once or twice a year anymore, I go to SFOT & SFFT at least 4 times each instead, and my point is that I shouldn't have to go to another city to ride a NEW coaster every year when I already have a Six Flags park practically in my back yard! There's NO reason why they CAN'T build some HERE too!
I'll say it again for those of you who didn't get it the first time: SFOT & SFFT are only in competition with other Six Flags parks too, just like SFAW is, but only SFAW gets treated like a bastard child every year! So SFAW joined the Six Flags family at a bad time, what's their excuse for neglecting it NOW? What's their excuse for neglecting it for the last 20 years? The fact remains that Dallas & San Antonio are no more of a tourist destination than Houston is, and yet Dallas & San Antonio get a NEW coaster at least every other year, while Houston has to wait 5 years or more just to get a "new" USED coaster! That's the point that I'm trying to prove. SFOT & SFFT have no more nearby non-Six Flags coaster competition than SFAW does, and yet THEY get NEW rides every other year, while SFAW gets SCREWED every year! Yes, I know they have a whopping total of TWO coasters at Sea World of Texas, but SFOT & SFFT pretty much only compete with each other and SFAW, so why is it that SFAW is the only Six Flags park in Texas that's constantly accused of having no other competition nearby that isn't owned by Six Flags? You COULD say the exact same thing about SFOT & SFFT, and yet no one here expects THEM to NOT get a major new coaster every other year or so because THEY only compete with themselves, so why do y'all only single out SFAW all the time? I'd like to know!
*** This post was edited by Iron Draggon on 7/25/2002. ***
Closed topic.
