Deja Vu, when will it open
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A random Mooshter's Dawntionary listing: Circumvent [n.] The opening in the front of boxer shorts.
I hope they're getting whatever problems worked out, and I'm hoping it'll be opening up sometime soon. I'll be there in a few days, even though most likely it'll be the same story.
V2 gives you a better vertical drop anyway, as the train is allowed to travel up, stall, and then come back down. Physics could probably explain why this sensation is better, but I can tell you that it is.
Fact is, the reason I want it to open ASAP is because it'll eat some people off the midways. That 2.5 hour line has about as many people as a 30 minute line on Raging Bull (if you look at queue arrangement, anyway), but it's a start.
And if the trains aren't the issue, why is such a big deal being made about these supposed new trains? Sure, it could be a combination of things (lift, trains...), but it sure sounds like the trains have a hand in the unreliability.
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"Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation." - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
http://www.loopscrew.com
I-Nar, I think Vu clearly tops V2. More variety, a bit frightening, and to me the drops on V2 aren't as effective, maybe because the thrill of shooting up seems much wilder in comparison and going down almost seems like a relief.
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Buy "Stereotype Be" from Kevin Max at Amazon.com
Apparently my making a little levity of the situation wasn't so well responded to...
So, let's try a little more serious approach, after I grab a Dad's Root Beer cough drop from Walgreen's -> The Official Cough Drop of the Chipster :P
First of all, I don't think you will find anyone who would say that the entire cause of the problems with Deja Vu was the trains. However, it is undeniably ONE of the problems. The original trains had the diamond kick plates added before the ride even opened to the public because of the stress fractures the trains were already exhibiting.
That is the primary driving reason that the trains have been rebuilt. If you have had a chance to ride it, you will see that they support structure/connector for the outriggers has been radically stiffened and redone. It is ALL metal on the outside.
Now then, with that out of the way...
Although it is (officially) unconfirmed, the Chicago train is not on site yet because it is going to be a guinea pig straight 4 across train. They are going to see if:
1. Does it speed up load times
2. Will it run better than the other two refurb trains
My understanding is that the platform itself wouldn't have to be modified since thr trains will be the same dimensions they always were. They wouldn't HAVE to re do the gates...they could just block of the lines for the "B" sections for instance.
Will it ever see the light of day? Who knows. It may turn into such an overwhelming project (in the grand tradition of Deja Vu) that it ends up being scrapped in lieu of a refurb a la SFOG and SFMM.
However, if SF is really doing this, color me as impressed.
*** This post was edited by Chipster 7/11/2003 9:50:22 PM ***
Chipster, what happens if it doesnt speed up loading time and if it doesnt run better. What are they gonna do? Close it down again?! I suppose they would try and I would assume it would have better reliability and capacity. Maybe it'll dispatch like you were on Batman. Very qiuckly and efficiently. (thats just an example of a good capacity ride)
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Top 5 SFGAm Coasters: 1) Raging Bull 2) S:UF 3) V2 4) B:TR 5) Viper
Maybe Deja Vu would be on this list if it would open!
Uh...who is making the big deal out of the *rumored* four-across trains? The park (uh....no). The manufacturer (uh...no). It's the stupid enthusiasts who don't know any better. The only ones who ever claimed the trains are the cause of the ride's problems are the enthusiasts who really don't know a thing about how this ride works. Sorry, but a "rumored solution" that won't even fix the problem isn't fact just because you read it on sixflagsnews.com or wherever you choose to get your daily dose of BS.
Chipster: First of all, please don't think the above is aimed at you. I'm just attempting to point out that just because enthusiasts have diagnosed the problem through their thorough examinations (yes, that's sarcasm) doesn't mean they know what's going on. Anyway, clearly there were structural issues with the former trains, as evidenced by the modifications to the SFoG train (as well as the SFMM train, I assume). However, it is *not* the train that is causing the ride to valley, mis-align with the station frequently, etc. Stress fractures in the train are important, sure, but fixing those problems are not going to do anything for the ride's reliability. Nor will this speed up load times because the checking restraints process is ridiculous as can be, and you don't need a new train to understand that. The fix this ride truly needs has little, if anything at all, to do with the trains.
-Nate
*** This post was edited by coasterdude318 7/12/2003 4:35:32 AM ***
In my opinion, losing (possibly) a whole season of operation in the hopes that buuilding a new train will help load times is a questionable decision. Though it was confusing to guests in the first season, after several seasons most would come to understand it. I don't think its worth losing a season over. In my opinion, the biggest factor in the load times is those seat belts. If the new trains scrap the seat belts, then we'll see surely some improved loading times.
Another issue is: Would the 4-across trains somehow be less vulnerable to stress fractures, and why? And also, what is the concern with new trains "running better"? The ride in its previous manifestation was sufficiently smooth.
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Buy "Stereotype Be" from Kevin Max at Amazon.com
I dont really think four across would help with stress factors. I dont think that by takiong the two end seats and moving them a foot foward will make everything better.
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Top 5 SFGAm Coasters: 1) Raging Bull 2) S:UF 3) V2 4) B:TR 5) Viper
Maybe Deja Vu would be on this list if it would open!
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"Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation." - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
http://www.loopscrew.com
SFGAMan, my understanding is that they would go back to the 2.0 (if you will) train at SFOG if the train becomes that problematic.
Nate,
Up until this season at SFOG, I was in total 150% agreement. I swore up and down that the only way to make this ride work was going to be with a conversion to LIMs - which would NEVER happen.
Then I rode it.
Again, just to make it clear, the trains are NOT the single cause of the ride's problems and consequently they are NOT the single solution for all of the problems.
At SFOG, here is the observable work:
1. They are now staffing the ride with at least 5 attendants (including op) and sometimes six.
2. They are only letting one train's worth of passengers into the queue gates at one time and are assigning seats.
3. The trains are only pulled up 177 ft now (about two track "sections" from the current drop point)
4. The result (which is probably combined with the reprogramming of the controllers that has been ongoing at SFMM since at least season two of DV) is that the ride is MUCH smoother. It also has SIGNIFICANTLY more speed going through the boomerang and the loop...it no longer looks like it is going to valley every single pass through these elements.
The only stoppages that I know of this year have been 10 minutes or shorter for protein spills and a part needed to be replaced on one of the spike towers due to premature failure.
If you look at the evolution of the ride, each modifcation has either made the ride less complex (like changing the original pulley system for the catch towers) or has beefed it up (stronger cables, 2.0 trains, etc).
I know that SF is working on these things in no small part to get some ROI, but the amount of effort that they have out into them is truly astonishing.
And specifically for a park with a practical ride height limit of 200 ft (except for ONE small portion where they can go to approx 230 if they desired) without some sort of tunneling work -> expensive along the banks of the Chattahoochee River -> Deja Vu makes a great addition. Nice drop, a few inversions...
It's not the greatest ride in the world by a longshot. Still, it is a lot of fun NOW and hopefully will continue to improve as SF gets a greater handle on the beast.
For whatever it may be worth, I have not heard word ONE about Chicago been torn down. In fact, my understanding is that the ride has to be installed for a minimum of 5 years untill it depreciates in value enough to make scrapping it financially sensible.
Chipster
Chipster: Most of the "fixes" you've explained have gone into the SFoG ride are going to do nothing for Chicago's. The problems with capacity come right down to a ridiculous loading procedure. There's no reason seatbelts need to be checked twice, especially when the ride opened without them (SFoG)! Just checking all restraints at once instead of twice is going to cut loading times essentially in half. Fixing whatever problems there are with aligning the train in the station would also be a good move as it's a waste of time for the train to roll back and forth for a full minute, but that's not the biggest concern in terms of capacity. SFGAm already assigns seats on Deja Vu, with one or two train-loads of passengers in the station at a time (at least, that's how it is every time I've ridden it).
I'm not sure I understand when you say "The trains are only pulled up 177 ft now". Please correct me if I've misunderstood, but if the train is being pulled up a *shorter* height than before, how is it completing the course at a faster speed?? There's certainly a point at which the train is not up the tower far enough to release or it will valley, and that point (from what I've gathered watching the safety system) is not far below where the train was regularly releasing. The only thing that would make sense to me is to release the train from further up the tower, not lower.
I think there are two fixes that need to be applied to address the ride's downtime (aside from stress fractures in the trains, which I assume SF is working on). The trains need to be released from higher up, as that gives a greater "margin for error", if you will, and weather, wind, etc shouldn't be as big of a threat. However, I think it's just clear that this ride *is* going to valley once in awhile, but that's fine because there are systems in place to make sure it's not a problem (same systems found on all Vekoma boomerang/invertigo models). For some reason, however, this system does not seem to work on Deja Vu (at least, not on the Chicago ride) because it has valleyed *twice* in a spot it never should.
To summarize, applying the above two fixes would solve some of the major downtime of the ride, and getting rid of the ridiculous loading procedure will fix the capacity problems. Again, aside from the stress fracture problem (which, again, is apparently being dealt with) anything else is fairly minor in the grand scheme of things.
-Nate
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Buy "Stereotype Be" from Kevin Max at Amazon.com
There were 3 engineer looking guys dress in navy blue unifroms. One was climbing on the ladder that runs up the side of the first major support of the track as it comes out of the station. They were also standing around in the station under the "missing track" pointing and moving their hands around as to discribe what things are supposed to do (maybe how to load the train back on?!).
There was a supervisor type guy. Light blue shirt with the radio ear piece on his head. He was kind of just watching from that big wood platform that is under the loop.
There was also another guy walking around the footings of the ride. Looked like he was looking for something on the ground, he kept kicking the grass as if he was looking for something in the grass.
So something is going on...either they are trying to figure out the best way to take it down, or they are going over some the ride in prep for getting it going again (this year or next who knows).
I was there watching them for about 20 minutes and the wife wanted to move on to the next ride, so that is all that I have to offer. I tried to get the guys attention that was walking around under the ride, but I was unable to.h
*** This post was edited by ajanis 7/12/2003 10:02:22 PM ***
It seems like that was your first post so welcome to the forums!
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Top 5 SFGAm Coasters: 1) Raging Bull 2) S:UF 3) V2 4) B:TR 5) Viper
Maybe Deja Vu would be on this list if it would open!
*** This post was edited by SFGAMan 7/12/2003 9:45:24 PM ***
*** This post was edited by SFGAMan 7/12/2003 9:46:50 PM ***
Regardless, the good news is that they are doing something. The fact that there was at least 5 people there tells me that they were there for a good reason, not just to giggle and say to themselves "look at this 'wonderful' piece of engineering gone bad". It was not a social gathering thats for sure.
Yes...my first post (couldn't wait to get home to post what I saw). I have been a visitor of the site for a long time, just never saw a need to post until now..
*** This post was edited by ajanis 7/12/2003 9:59:13 PM ***
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Top 5 SFGAm Coasters: 1) Raging Bull 2) S:UF 3) V2 4) B:TR 5) Viper
Maybe Deja Vu would be on this list if it would open!
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SW:):)SH Shaddy(president of LEMCCDWBLI)
MidwestInfoGuide.COM
The loading procedure has changed. Riders are specifically told NOT to pull down their harnesses. The ride ops do it for them. Believe or not, the times I have been there they were averaging a dispatch every 3:30 - 4:00 minutes which, all things considered, is not bad and realistically about as good as it is going to get.
As for physics, I might suggest you bring that up with Rideman, becuase I sure can't explain it. I don't argue the point in and of itself because it does seem quite counterintuitave. Nevertheless though, a second, lower set of "wings" on the tower tracks have been added and the train no longers makes it up to the original set as it did in year one.
*** This post was edited by Chipster 7/13/2003 2:54:01 AM ***
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