CP #16 Criticism Unwarranted

Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:11 PM

There has been a lot of crticism directed towards the new Cedar Point coaster's shortness since the first mention of it being just a launch, top hat, and brakerun. I will admit I contributed to some of it, because I just didn't associate Cedar Point with short rides. Heck, the first time I went to CP was because my dad thought it would be cool to go ride those huge, long, and famed coasters that are always on TV. Really though when you think about it, it's a great plan and perfect addition.

I don't want to start an argument, but I just need to use SFMM (great park) as an example. IMO when they added X they pretty much shot themselves in the foot. X is my all time favorite ride, but the problem is (for me and others I've talked to) it basically makes their other looping rides, and even Goliath, to an extent, worthless. X does pretty much everything they all do, and then some. Scream will be an awesome ride no doubt, but who here can say that there is a B&M floorless that is better than X? Without getting too revolutionary or using a launch there really isn't any coaster that SFMM can add that will top or give a different experience than X.

CP, by making the new Intamin short, they don't hurt the experience of their other rides. If it had a long twisted circuit after the tower it would take much of the experience away from Millennium Force, and if it was filled with camel backs or some nice air time hills it would take the rideability away from Magnum. Those are two ride experiences CP definitely doesn't want to ruin. Also, by not making this thing a huge circuit, and keeping it a unique looking twisted tower, future rides won't have to live up to a 420ft (estimate) be all end all coaster. In other words, it makes it easier for CP to add new rides and still have them be different and satisfying to us riders.

"This time I think ... I think it's ... it's going to work!" - Dr.Bruce Banner

Saturday, December 14, 2002 11:02 PM

Just to respond to a few of your very good points:

1) From the beginning I ignored all the complainers and continue to do so. When has CP added a ride that enthusiasts didn't complain about to some extent? These very same people will knock you down trying to get to the ride on opening day. It's all hot air, jealously and ignorance, plain and simple. I won't alot any more time to this subject.

2) The stats of CP's new ride are so astonishing that my brain can't even fathom this thing. Pure adrenaline. My only concearn is the novelty of a ride like this, will the thrill still be there 5 years from now, or will we be bashing it like the licking that S:TE now takes daily(though I suspect that alot of that comes as *payback* to SFMM for *daring* to build a 400ft launch ride). I also hope the ride is a bit more consistant than Xcelerator. Not a complaint as much as it is a curiosity.

3) As for SFMM and X, I think your thinking as an enthusiast. The GP still lines up and enjoys Viper, Goliath and Riddler's Revenge, even with X sitting up front, and they're going to eat up the floorless. They simply aren't as obnoxiously picky as enthusiasts are. X blows pretty much every other current steel coaster off the map, but that doesn't mean it ends my coaster journey, not even close.

4) I've pretty much come full circle when it comes to rollercoasters. I enjoy them for what they are, use them as the escape the were orginally meant to be, and I'm done with the whining, politics and park wars that goes on round the "net". It just sucks out all the fun IMO. That doesn't mean I don't like opinions, as long as they're based in *reality* with at least a since of humor and a certain level of maturity.

Superman:The Escape(1997-2002) May he one day fly again.

*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 12/15/2002. ***

*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 12/15/2002. ***

Sunday, December 15, 2002 3:01 AM

I will ride this ride and enjoy it, but I can't help but think " what a waste."

Not that this ride will not be thrilling, it will. I just can't see building a ride that is going to use such a tremendous anount of energy to get the train up to 120 mph and be over so quickly. From the start of the launch to the end of the break run will probably be less than 30 seconds.

Someone in a different thread stated that it takes about 8,000 HP to launch Xcelerator. I don't know if that is true or not, but is probably close. This ride may take 12,000 HP. That is three big diesel/electric locomotives my friends. Every time this thing launches, Toledo Edison is going to burp.

I just hate to see all of that energy wasted. I would rather have seen a few hills and a few turns. Even Xcelerator is more than L-TH-B. It has a few overbanks.

Thats just my opinion.

There is a new twist in the Top-Hat.

*** This post was edited by CP ismyhome on 12/15/2002. ***

Sunday, December 15, 2002 4:04 AM

For the record, that energy will be stored, not drawn all at once. The pressure is built up and released in a hydraulic system like this.

Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com

Sunday, December 15, 2002 5:05 AM

People complained about WT. People complained about MF! People complained about PT....and on and on. It's inevitable! :(

- Peabody

Sunday, December 15, 2002 5:41 AM

CP ismyhome said:

Someone in a different thread stated that it takes about 8,000 HP to launch Xcelerator. I don't know if that is true or not, but is probably close. This ride may take 12,000 HP. That is three big diesel/electric locomotives my friends. Every time this thing launches, Toledo Edison is going to burp.

*** This post was edited by CP ismyhome on 12/15/2002. ***

Yep, I said that. Xcelerator can create up to 11,000 horsepower on demand, but for obvious reasons they don't (8,000=82MPH). 12,000 sounds a little high, I'd say they will create 11,500, since 11,000 creates 117MPH. But the biggest limitation to my guess is train weight. What is it going to be: 5,6,7,8, or 9 cars? That plays a humongous factor.

You better pray Dragster gets better capacity. Xcelerator often has more than 7 hours of downtime a day.

I'm very sick of people comparing Dragster to Xcelerator, hypersonic, etc. Or judging it at all. No one has ridden it.

Sunday, December 15, 2002 5:49 AM

DWeaver, I couldn't agree with you more. The most refreshing post that i have read in a while.

I think that a lot of the moaning has to do with the fact people simply like moaning. i.e. they know what they're moaning about is unjustified but they simply find it entertaining to whinge.

I think that the of shortness Dragster probably has more to do with cost and space, rather than to prevent it being something that could not be surpassed.

*** This post was edited by Mr Rush on 12/15/2002. ***

Sunday, December 15, 2002 6:00 AM

A spokesperson from Cedar Point was once questuioned about their thoughts on SFMM adding 3 coasters in 2001 for the world record. The representative from Cedar Point said that it is a pleasure to hold a world record, but we are also interested in the quality constructed with our new coasters. Cedar Point builds great rides so you'll WANT to come back.

I don't EVER recall Cedar Point closing down a ride for a long period of time for modifications. -They do that before the final design is completed. SFMM has build the 415 ft tall Superman in 1996, and it didn't even open till the next year do to problems. A similar problem just happend with X. -It opened up, and then shut down for months.


Sunday, December 15, 2002 6:19 AM

Trying not to flame here but....

It is true that CP at the worst has a roller coaster down for a week to get a part while some SF parks have had roller coasters down for months at a time:

X, Deja Vu (SFGAM arghhh!)

Who care about records....we are getting world class rides!!!

Sunday, December 15, 2002 6:35 AM

jkpark & Craig the Coaster Freak - you're going to blame Six Flags for the downtime with X and Deja Vu? Shouldn't the blame go to Arrow and Vekoma?

Funny that you conveniently forgot to mention some non-Six Flags parks who have also had problems. Knott's [Perilous Plunge, Xcelerator], CP [Wicked Twister] and PKD [Volcano, Hypersonic] are some that quickly come to mind, and I'm sure there are many more. But again in those two cases I also blame the manufacturers, Intamin and S&S.

Moosh - also thinks alot of the SF bashing is unwarranted.

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*** This post was edited by Mamoosh on 12/15/2002. ***

Sunday, December 15, 2002 6:36 AM
jkpark, sure X, Deja Vu, and Superman had extended periods of downtime, but those coasters were all prototypes. When a park installs a prototype, they have to make room for it time-wise, because as we have seen in the past, certain prototypes work from the get-go, and others don't. I wouldn't say CP builds protoypes, they just build bigger and faster. Not as much is prone to go wrong that way, as the kinks have usually been worked out in previous designs.

Never Has Gravity Been So Uplifting.

Sunday, December 15, 2002 7:07 AM
I don't think anyone should assume anything about the new ride until the official announcement.
Sunday, December 15, 2002 7:10 AM

This happens with every new ride Cedar Point builds. There was a lot of complaining about Millennium Force, too (hard to believe, considering it is the #1 coaster right now). Wicked Twister also had a lot of complaints, but some people like it more than Millennium Force.

I suppose this is just another wave of complains that will all go away once we ride it.

The top 3 all time cobrarolls.

2)Deja Vu's (times 3)
3)Batman Knight Flight's

Sunday, December 15, 2002 7:17 AM

Speedy, why are you sick of people comparing CP 16 to Xcelerator & Hypersonic? They are all very similar rides and SINCE nobody has ridden CP16, comparing it to other similar rides is the best we can do. All have (will have) crazy launches, a non inverting straight up and straight down hill, and a rather short duration. Sounds like a good comparison to me.

-Jason, who really enjoys Xcelerator, but hates its capacity.

Nothing... NOTHING... can prepare you for... the Fourth Dimension!

Sunday, December 15, 2002 7:54 AM

It is rediculous how worked up people can get. Definitely look at when Millennium Force was being built. Everyone said it was too short or a One Trick Pony but was it? No, it is one of the best roller coasters, period. People need to stop over analyzing everything and take things as they are.

Also, if you notice, Cedar Point is all about diversity of their coasters. It took them 11 years to go for the height record with Millennium Force and they still went for something different as far as layout. This is just another type of roller coaster they want to add. Remember, there are still other roller coasters in the park. If you don't like this one them go ride another. If you don't like the other then there are 14 more you can ride.

"The opposite of war isn't peace, its creation," Rent.

Sunday, December 15, 2002 9:27 AM

I agree with Moosh and think that most of the problems had to do with the builder/manufacturer and not the park deciding they wanted a giant lawn ornament (besides Flashback ;)) so they wouldn't have to pay to run it.

IOArules, since you're saying that the smaller loopers become almost meaningless once the bigger, more intense ones (like X) come into the park, I don't see that happening at all from any of the parks I've been to. All the loopers (heck, you can include non-loopers and I would say I like Magnum more than MF at CP) are still important in their own and I've seen longer lines for Demon than Shockwave at SFGAm, longer lines for Batman than Georgia Scorcher at SFOG and each ride has a large audience built in anyways.

Some kids and adults as well are afraid of the bigger or loopier rides, so Revolution, Superman, Ninja, and Batman would still be of high importance to the entire park. When you go to a park, you want to experience everything, not just the biggest even if they may be what influences you the visit in the first place. When I think about going to SFMM for the first time, I remember all the times they built a new coaster in the past and I dreamed of going. First, they built Superman(!!!), then came Riddler's Revenge(!!), then Goliath(!), then X and Deja Vu!! I would have wanted to go without any of those being there even at this point in time. They're all just icing on the cake at the park and I would say every coaster at the park would be worth riding.

Would I skip Gemini at CP even though you could consider Magnum just a larger version of it? Heck no! It's one of the "funnest" coasters I've ever been on. The wait for Beastie and Reptar at PKI are usually longer than Vortex, Adventure Express, and Top Gun, but I almost always ride those anyways.

And if you're an enthusiast especially, why the heck would you skip the rest of the coasters at a park just because one may be bigger or better?! I'm actually more excited about Scream than CP16 mainly because I love floorless coasters, but I think they'll both be extremely popular. Anything that has a long, interesting layout and a lot of changes in direction like mine trains and many of B&M's coasters I love the most. CP's new coaster is just another small piece of the puzzle and if you loved the park last season and are complaining about the ride, they could have built nothing. You would still love the park and visit right? I didn't even expect something major to come until 2004 or 2005, so I guess we're really lucky.

A lot of criticism of this ride really is unwarranted, but overall I personally haven't paid much attention to anything surrounding the coaster. I know it will be really tall, really fast, and rather short for a ride with its height, but other than that, I'll just wait until I wait so i won't be disappointed. No matter what, I'm still planning on going to the park next season and it will just be another coaster that I'll head to after riding Raptor, Disaster Transport, Wicked Twister, Cedar Downs, and Corkscrew. If I end up liking or loving it, great! If not, I still have Magnum, Gemini, MF, and Demon Drop ahead of me. :)


*** This post was edited by Koaster King on 12/15/2002. ***

Sunday, December 15, 2002 9:28 AM

I would like to make a public service announcement.

Remember when Cedar Point was the first to break the 200 foot record? Cedar Point thought, "Why not 100 more feet?"

Remember when Batman the Ride was catching on with Six Flags? Cedar Point thought, "We want one but bigger and better."

Remember when the Intamin Impulse coaster had one twisted spike? Cedar Point thought, "Why not two?"

Remember the rocket coaster at Knott's Berry Farm? Cedar Point thought, "We want one that's unmatched and will give the ultimate experience."

Just remember folks. When you look for innovation, look for Cedar Point. Cedar Point cares. ;)

Sunday, December 15, 2002 9:34 AM

I am not dogging on CP in anyway here, ...."BUT" how is making an existing coaster bigger and (in your opinion) better, qualify CP as being the innovators in the coaster industry?

Last time I checked, innovation would be more suited to the parks that take a chance on a prototype.

I love CP on the visit I had to the park last May, but innovation is not one of their strongpoints.

2 superheroes in Gurnee next season? Oh the humanity. :)

Sunday, December 15, 2002 9:41 AM
I almost responded about that Chitown, but then I realized that he was being sarcastic, I think... and I hope, lol. =^P


*** This post was edited by Koaster King on 12/15/2002. ***

Sunday, December 15, 2002 9:43 AM

Well Koaster King got it.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I was being sarcastic.



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