Clementon Park's new owners hope to improve experience

And if Other people weren't doing the same thing we wouldnt have buzz words like Staycation.

But to be fair Gonch - your post made me feel warm and fuzzy when I read it as compared to Carrie's very blunt sentence.

I think both of you finally expressed the value of a hotel there in terms that make sense to me. Not need, although some may have a need for it, but rather want. Lots of people want to make a trip to the park more enjoyable by staying the night. Heck I know my kids think staying in a hotel is awesome. Doesn't mean it is for everyone, but certainly enough people want that.

:)

I've always known Gonch to be the nurturer of the group. Me? I hate babies and Conneaut Lake Park.

I like to think of myself as the 'tough, but fair" nuturer.

You hate me at the time, but in hindsight appreciate what a great teacher and mentor I was. ;)

(I almost typed that with a straight face)

Yes, you can expect the nice thank you letter I will send in reflective appreciation in about 30 years. ;)

Bill keeps up bringing up this point about the Carowinds comparison made at the end of the first page as not being valid. I would submit that given the locale of Carowinds and knowing what surrounds it (I have family in SC and have to drive past it, very annoying in the offseason or times where you don't have the time/ability to stop in), the fact that they are actually building a hotel is very valid. You see, there are so many hotels within the Charlotte area, and especially close to the park, yet the park sees a need to build a hotel of its own despite all of the available lodging around them. Why? Any need for lodging can and will be taken up by outside firms.

And here I know you (Bill) will say that I just made your point for you, but hold on to that stupid remark for a moment. Carowinds sees a need even with a vast selection to chose from in a very reasonable radius. Yet by all accounts, the park is hardly a "destination" or a two-day park. So why build a hotel? To try and encourage a multi-day visit. Building a hotel just to fill a need is stupid in Carowinds' situation. They aren't building this to fill a need, they're building it to create a need. They're not building a hotel because people want to stay and do other stuff in Charlotte, because why would someone just spending one day at the park and another day or two in Charlotte pay the markup when they can stay at any of the other surrounding hotels for less?

This creation of a need is what GAdv has seen, and what everyone but you has seen. Actually, they have already created the need that has yet to be fulfilled, but they do not want to fill it themselves. So why hasn't anyone stepped in to partner and fulfill the need? From where I stand, it seems they haven't been too proactive and/or talked to the right people in the right way.

There is so much upside to building a hotel there, but all that upside can easily go unnoticed/untapped when you're doing it wrong. That seems to be the case right now. Your base argument of "If it would be profitable it would already be built" is so simplistic and falls flat on its face in the presence of forward-thinking initiatives. It is all about creating and then fulfilling a need. Carowinds is in the creating stage, GAdv is discovering (or maybe has yet to discover) that they are beyond the creation stage and are to the fulfillment stage. Create a need and then fulfill it. That is a lot of what the amusement industry is, especially when it comes to the larger destination parks, which GAdv is.

maXairMike said:
So why hasn't anyone stepped in to partner and fulfill the need? From where I stand, it seems they haven't been too proactive and/or talked to the right people in the right way.

That is the one part of Bill's arguement that has some merit. Is it because: A) outside hotel chains don't think there is money to be made, B) the local government entity keeps putting up various roadblocks, C) the ball just hasn't gotten rolling yet?

Even if it is option A, I would definitely say they're wrong. I would lean very heavily toward option C, as I don't really know much about the political/utility situation there (option B). Although, didn't the dual launching Chiller coaster have power issues because of the supply line to the park. There could be issues with the power/gas/water/electric not being willing to expand the infrastructure outlay if that would be needed. I imagine it is not exactly cheap to constantly be adding onto infrastructure in a way that wasn't too well planned, which could happen if things spring up individually over a long enough timespan. You know, now that I think about it, this could actually have quite a bit to do with utility issues depending upon how "built out" the utilities are there. I'm sure upgrading the supply to the park isn't too hard/expensive in a cost/profit comparison, but future outlay may be.

This forum needs more Carrie.

billb7581 said:
People book hotel rooms rather than drive an hour? On what planet does this happen?

Apparently planet Sandusky, where 75% of guests live within two hours.

D) the company has had three different management teams in, what, five years. And they went bankrupt. Probably not the best time to invest in a hotel just now. But by the parks own admission they're looking into it...

What I'm puzzled by is how CoasterBuzz came to be. I mean, if there was a need for such a website, wouldn't one already have existed? ;)

CoasterBuzz was invented before the Internets. Duh.

Wow do I feel stupid...or smart. Whichever... :)

Jeff said:
This forum needs more Carrie.

billb7581 said:
People book hotel rooms rather than drive an hour? On what planet does this happen?

Apparently planet Sandusky, where 75% of guests live within two hours.

I have to ask, because I dont really know

Aren't the great lakes, the midwest equivalent of "going to the shore" to use a Jersey term? That would make CP compare more to a midwest Morey's Piers IMO. I could be way off base here, because I've never been to Sandusky.

Tekwardo said:
Carowinds is close to what exactly, that Great Adventure isn't? And who said people were vacationing at these parks? Sure there is daytripping but there are so weekenders.

Again just because you and your family don't stay overnite when driving over an hour (you just pointed out how far those places were from GADv, and my response concerned people living on the far side of those cities, easily two hours or more away) doesn't mean that enough people aren't willing to stay over nite. You keep acting like everyone haw to want to stay. The reality is that only a small portion would want to.

Kings Dominion is in Doswell VA. Nothing else really close. And Richmond is hardly a destination. Oh and there is a hotel there at the Park's entrance. I guess peoe stay there to look at the gas station across the street.

My parents are in no way enthusiasts but we always stayed overnite when we went to the closest amusement park when I was a kid. Because they didn't feel like drivin a couple hours after an exhausting day. Then the only thing close to Carowinds was the outlet mall nearby. We'd go there for a couple hours the next day.

Hey, doesn't GADv have one of those close?

Short answer I am on my phone. Carrowinds is in friggin Charlotte, it's close to whatever is in Charlotte.

Kings Dominion is located on the most heavily traveled road on the east coast and the potential exists for someone to stop there on their way to Florida/Maine etc.l

Yyou're anecdotal evidence counts, but mine doesnt.. gotchaa.

There is a Tanger outlet identical to every other Tanger outlet in the world. I've mentioned this

People do not flock to the shore as a tourist destination, no, not really. Can't speak for Detroit, but in Cleveland people did not particularly spend a lot of time hanging out near the lake unless they had a boat. I don't know of any Columbus or Pittsburgh folk who particularly view the shore as an attraction either. Perhaps some places in Western Michigan, where they have nice beaches, but I don't know that reach is huge either.

Okay so, Carowinds and Kings Dominion are situated In highly populated areas and that's why they need hotels but Great Adventure is in a highly populated area and that's why they don't need a hotel. Gotcha.

And who is going to stop at KD on their way to a vacation? People don't do that you said. Just like they wouldn't stop at Great Adventure going north to NYC.

Interesting though that GADv is in one of the biggest tourist destinations in North America but neither KD or Carowinds (only one R) aren't...

LostKause said:
ZING! to Techno!

A lot of us have been on CoasterBuzz for a decade or close to it. Some of us visit this website every single day. We have spent the last decade talking about hotels, amusement parks, and everything even closely related. We are very familiar with the topic of hotels and amusement parks. A lot of people here either work directly in the industry, or have worked directly in the industry. Some build roller coaster trains, some are or have been ride operators, and some even run amusement parks.

A Machinist, who claims to not even like roller coasters, begins to post on CoasterBuzz. He definitely doesn't have the same knowledge or experience that the others have here, and has a less qualified opinion of this topic that he trolls about.

Everyone else wins the conversation. Bill loses. The end.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html

Besides, I never said I didnt like roller coasters, hell I've probably been on more than half of ya. I would call myself a" provincial" roller coaster enthusiast. I like them and try to hit as many as I can, nearby, but I'm not going to make my travel plans around them. If there are coasters/amusement parks where I happen to be going I'm all about it.

Tekwardo said:
Okay so, Carowinds and Kings Dominion are situated In highly populated areas and that's why they need hotels but Great Adventure is in a highly populated area and that's why they don't need a hotel. Gotcha.

And who is going to stop at KD on their way to a vacation? People don't do that you said. Just like they wouldn't stop at Great Adventure going north to NYC.

Interesting though that GADv is in one of the biggest tourist destinations in North America but neither KD or Carowinds (only one R) aren't...

Carrowinds is convienient to Charlotte, Kings Dominion is right on the side of Rt 95. GA is on a 2 lane road in the middle of nowhere, not really convienient to Philly or NYC for a non park traveler.

There are hundreds, if not thousands of more convienient options for lodging near Philadelphia, if that is the goal. A hotel near GA will capture exactly 0 percent of that.

Jeff said:
People do not flock to the shore as a tourist destination, no, not really. Can't speak for Detroit, but in Cleveland people did not particularly spend a lot of time hanging out near the lake unless they had a boat. I don't know of any Columbus or Pittsburgh folk who particularly view the shore as an attraction either. Perhaps some places in Western Michigan, where they have nice beaches, but I don't know that reach is huge either.

I kinda meant Sandusky. Thats a beach area, no?