Clementon Park's new owners hope to improve experience

Post of the week. Well done.

maXairMike said:
Or maybe they're, ya know, great parks? Ohio actually has a rather full history when it comes to amusement parks. People all over the state grew up going to them, and many companies have had company picnics at them for years. Now that all the local parks are pretty much gone, they all go to the two big parks.

That is the other possibility I came up with, that KI is a better run park.

The perception here is that GA is overrun with kids, because of the heavy discounting they do, and not somewhere you want to take a family. My nieces and nephews and their friends who just got their licenses have season passes, but noone else I know even bothers going there.

Platinum Bass said:

billb7581 said:
The only explanation for Kings Island's attendance numbers is that there is nothing to do in Ohio.

Can't be that. If Ohio was lacking for alternative sources of things to do, someone would have already built them.

Logic Fail. You dont have nowhere near the population density there to support as many alternative tourist destinations. Geographically this area is small, but it offers a crapload to do, and Six Flags is pretty far down the list and not a destination, in and of itself. Not many people are going to burn a weeks vacation to go to six flags when you can drive another half hour and be at the beach. Or drive 2 hours in the other direction and be in the mountains.

http://www.mapsofnewmexico.com/AccordianTabs/USAMapsandGuides/USApop.php

billb7581 said:

but noone else I know even bothers going there.

This reminds me of one of my favorite Yogi Berra quotes. I believe he was speaking of a restaurant when he said "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

And I thought "noone" was the lead singer of Herman's Hermits.

Something tells me I'm into something good...

billb7581 said:
http://www.mapsofnewmexico.com/AccordianTabs/USAMapsandGuides/USApop.php

WATCH OUT!!! HE'S GOT MAPS!!!!! DUCK!!!!

I was about to jump in and respond and then I was all, "SQUIRREL!!!"

I've gone from annoyed, to interested, back to annoyed, to amused and now with the latest replies right into fascinated.

It's like performance art at this point.

Yeah, I hate to break it to Travis, but this is much more fun than his FastPass rants.

Tourist spending by county 2006

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OpiEPoTolN8J:intraweb.stockton.edu/eyos/business/content/docs/njtourism/tourism_08_brochure.pdf+new+jersey+tourism+ranking&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Atlantic - 13 billion (Atlantic City and the adjacent shore towns.)

Cape May - 4.9 billion (county that includes Moreys and the southern shore towns)

Ocean - 3.2 billion (County that includes Six Flags but also includes all the northern shore towns so you cant even attribute this figure entirely to GA)

Geographically these counties are small, but they generate almost the same tourism dollar as the entire state of Ohio.

And yet, Ohio has the 8th highest GDP of any state, almost the same as New Jersey, and the 7th highest population. Gosh, what do people do all day?

FACT: You stated that a park with lower attendance but more people within "day trip distance" meant it couldn't support a hotel.
FACT: A park with higher attendance and 3.1 million people within an hour's drive has dozens of hotels around it.

CONCLUSION: The notion that a hotel in the backyard of SFGAdv can't exist is absurd.

Because the people are obviously traveling further to get to KI.

Just comparing NJ to Ohio is irrevalent. GA is right between the Philly and NYC metropolitan area. How many professional sports teams are within 1-2 hours of Mason Ohio?

From Jackson NJ you could go to a Phillies, Flyers, Eagles, Sixers, Mets, Yankees, Nets, Knicks, Giants, Jets, Rangers, Devils, or Islanders game in that span. The location right at 195 puts you on the cusp of both markets but not entirely in one.

NJ alone has 8 million people within 90 minutes of GA.

Philly has 1.5 million

NYC has 18 million.

FACT... it's not even close.

So the argument has progressed to "there are 13 professional sports teams within an hour or two of SFGAdv so a hotel would never work there?" ;)

Seriously though, you have a unique view of travel and tourism, Bill, but the more you talk, the more you reveal you know absolutely nothing about the industry. (and I suspect also nothing about how things really are ouside of the Philly/NYC corridor.)

billb7581 said:

maXairMike said:
Or maybe they're, ya know, great parks? Ohio actually has a rather full history when it comes to amusement parks. People all over the state grew up going to them, and many companies have had company picnics at them for years. Now that all the local parks are pretty much gone, they all go to the two big parks.

That is the other possibility I came up with, that KI is a better run park.

The perception here is that GA is overrun with kids, because of the heavy discounting they do, and not somewhere you want to take a family. My nieces and nephews and their friends who just got their licenses have season passes, but noone else I know even bothers going there.

You completely missed my point...

And Gonch is right, you're out of your territory. As I stated earlier, they have already created the need (to make your visit a multi-day trip), but they haven't figured out how best to fulfill that need, and as a result are leaving a lot of money on the table. There are various reasons, but none of them are even close to what you have tried to say is the reason(s).

So Carrowinds [sic] is close to other things (uh, Charlotte) but GADv isn't, but GADv is apparently close to a million sports teams and huge cities, bi KI isn't. Therefore KI and Carrowinds [sic] can support hotels whereas GADv can't because it's 15 miles from the heaviest traveled highway in the US (kinda like like KD) and On billb's planet nobody has ever stayed in a hotel an hour from home. I think I understand now. Or something. Or not, whatever.

And you say no one you know bothers going there yet the park is notorious for being busy. I've apparently been more than you have in the last 20 years and I can tell you that on none of those visits was the park dead. And it wasn't overrun with just teens either.

PS Jimvid, I was referring to the new GADv coaster. The park flourished for 36 years whiteout it so why build it? That's the argument billb was trying to make for no hotel. Also re: supposedly 1% of visitors aren't daytrippers, what is the park's yearly attendance? That one percent could possibly be enough families to support a hotel depending on how much make up one percent.

Anyone know the Park's attendance for the last year or three? I googled but didn't find it.

Are you (sic,) Tek? I have a slight headache myself. Feel better quick!

Tekwardo said:
Anyone know the Park's attendance for the last year or three? I googled but didn't find it.

If you believe those yearly attendance reports that TEA/AECOM puts out, SFGAdv does close to 3 million (usually a hair under) and is one of the top 20 attended parks in the US, coming in around the bottom of that list (the 18-20 range).

So if even just 1% of a total attendance of...2,900,000 (just under 3 million), 29,000 total visitors are not day trippers and would likely stay in a hotel. The park is open for approx. 26 weeks, so that would break down to 1,115 guests per week looking for a place to stay around the park. Let's say that these are all families of 4 (pretty common family size, most often used for these kinds of illustrations)...that breaks down to roughly 279 families per week looking for a room. If you assume that half of those would be weekenders, and half would be weekday trips, that's about 140 families for each scenario looking for a hotel.

So those numbers alone don't necessarily scream BUILD A HOTEL RIGHT NOW!!!11!!1 But what about the extra money from those 279 families per week that is being spent on another attraction ticket, more food and drink, etc. I think about $150/day in food/drink/merch/games sounds like a decent number; so we have 279 families extending their visit by a day, spending $150 extra in the park. That's another $41,850/week, or $1,088,100 over the 26 week operating calendar.

What if you could double that number of 2-day visitors, even if they're staying off-property, but close to the park. That's 558 families of 4 per week spending an extra $150 on extras inside the park, or about $83,700 per week, or $2,176,200 over the 26-week operating season.

I feel like those numbers are pretty conservative, so you could even see larger growth than that. They have 3 different gates, but who is going to drive 60-90 minutes each way two days in a row? There is a need, they just haven't figured out how to fulfill it.

The waterpark is still a separate park even if it's included. I didn't know it was included now either? Also the safari could almost be another day or at least part of a 2nd day with the water park.

Nevermind, I misread the ticketing page. Something I read made it sound like the water park was included with the theme park admission at first glance. As usual, I was wrong.