Christian group says Disney no-fly zone interferes with free speech

Playa -- nicely said. Although I'm no longer an active Jehovah's Witness (I was never baptized in that faith anyway), I actually have quite a bit of RESPECT for the ones who go door-to-door. Hell, that's how my parents discovered it in the first place. Especially nowadays, they're putting themselves at all sorts of risks, yet they go. I know a lot of folks get annoyed by it, but I admire it in a way. Generally speaking, they're polite, not pushy, and really are genuinely interested in SHARING what they think is "The Truth". Without cramming it down our throats with yelling, screaming, banners, bombs...

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--Greg, aka Oat Boy
My page
"Mary Jane, don't you cry, you can give it a try, Again when the sequel comes out" -- Weird Al, Ode to a Superhero

Aw, come on, Greg. You and all the other JWs are going to hell and you know it.

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For fun and whatever else, have you ever seen this site? It's not mine, so click here.

Oooooooooooh, the LAST thing you wanna do is get a Jay-Dub whipping all back and forth in the Bible on the subject of 'Hell'. Haven't we opened enough cans of worms? Phew!

Wow... a lot of discussion has gone on since I last checked this. Last night I tossed in my opinions about this "No-Fly" zone thing, and if it is indeed infringing on any one group's freedom of speech (scroll up and read my post if your interested). A few have responded to that subject, but since this has basically evolved into a "Religion & Homosexuality" conversation, I'd like to more specifically address these issues.

It seems like I agree with just about everything Jeff & Gregleg have said here. One incident mentioned earlier I found particularly sad & touching...

Jeff said:

my hall director in college told one of my fellow RA's, and Indian fellow, out of "love" he (and 700 million other people) was going to hell for being Hindu. He quit and nearly sued the school, and frankly I don't blame him.

My mother told me about a similar experience when she was in High School. A little catholic girl she was babysitting and started crying for seemingly no reason while in my mother's care. My mom asked the girl what was wrong, and through her sobs, the child replied "I'm just so sad Judy. You are such a nice person and it's just awful that you are going to hell."

"What makes you think I'm going to hell?" My mother calmly asked.

"You're Jewish, Judy... And all Jewish people are going to hell."

Needless to say, my mom was very upset by this. It's a prime example of how religion can put up barriers between two people who would normally have no quarrel with each other.

It seems to me that most religions are basically the same fundamental principles applied to different stories or "mythologies". Over the centuries, various texts have been reinterpreted out of hatred and intolerance, causing rifts between people of different beliefs, races, and sexual orientations.

Gregleg said:

Remember, today's myths are yesterday's religion. People really did BELIEVE in Zeus at one point.

It's funny, because I've found myself saying almost exactly the same thing to anyone who chooses to use the bible or any other book as a means to pass judgment on me. I simply don't understand how any mortal person can have the audacity to know absolutely exactly what god or any other supreme entity believes is right or wrong. We are human. We don't have all the answers - that's why religion exists in the first place. We as humans need something to answer all the questions that cannot be explained by science or simple human experience. Throughout history, there have been stories created to help illustrate the fundamental principles - good & evil - right & wrong - love & hate.

It all seems pretty simple to me. Love & respect are good things. Respect, tolerance, understanding... all these things lead to peace and harmony in the world. Hate, fear, intolerance and anger lead to violence, death, and divisions amongst people of different cultures. These are tangible things - not fairytales... not stories... They are realities that any human can experience.

Sex & romatic relationships between two consenting adults, regardless of gender, is a positive thing. The only negative thing about homosexuality is the fear, violence, and hatred brought about by people who use their own belief structures to attack those who would otherwise be free to have a healthy loving relationship. It's sad that even in today's society that loving gay or lesbian couple is the subject of more ridicule than a dysfunctional, abusive straight couple.

As for religion, I personally don't believe in any of it - but I certainly don't fault anyone else for their own religious beliefs.

It's all about respect... and I respect all of you participating in this discussion, regardless if we agree or not.

*** This post was edited by djgreghaus 6/6/2003 7:44:47 AM ***

Exactly, Playa! Hoping someone would catch that one. My fave to this date is the Christian Science position that nothing is real or tangible. My buddy lives next door to a CS church, and they refuse to allow him to park in their lot. Paul continues to park there to this day, as every time they complain, he says "what parking lot?" ;)

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I have been arrested more than you

Cap'n Obvious sez:

Somedays it's just tough to be a superhero. The minute I rescue this idiot from the wrath of a TeknoScorpion do-it-yourself WatchTower article, off he goes and opens another Pandora's box.

That does it...my cape is tied. I hope Mary Baker Eddy herself 'heals' your Wild Turkey stash into cider vinegar. White Cider vinegar at that. You sicken me.

-CO

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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.

Thanks again Playa. You prove my points with aplomb. :) Oh, to be a different Coasterbuzzer for a day.... Can I ride in the MOJ just once?

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There is trouble afoot. - Don't fret.

I happen to be very intrigued about this topic of right vs. wrong, is homosexuality a sin, who is going to hell type of posting on the different religions and viewpoints. Many people have different opinions of everything in this world based on how they were raised, or born a certain way, or the religion that they follow because their parents taught them, so I am not going to address any of the discussion above. I do not know of any religious passages to quote from to prove a point, which is only a viewpoint interpreted differently by people rather than the absolute truth, but I do want to ask a question to everyone.

My question is, what do religions say about Jews and Judaism? People talk about how homosexuality is a sin and you will go to hell, (different viewpoints of course) but djgreghaus brought up a very good point. The little girl was crying because she believed that dj's mom is going to hell soley because she is jewish. I am of Jewish faith and I do not believe I would go to hell strictly because of my religion, but rather like most people said, of what good I do in my lifetime. The Jewish calendar states that the world is about 5,800 years old (I do not recall the exact year) and Judaism, the first monotheistic religion, shaped the views of Jesus because he was raised a Jew. So, I can not possibly imagine that Jesus, Christianity's founding father if you will, would state that "Jews are going to hell." So, I'm just wondering where this viewpoint about Jews and hell originated.

To sum my statements up, what do the different religions, hindu, muslim, shinto, christianity, buddhism, and sectors (I do not know if that is the appropriate word) such as Protestant and Catholic say about Jews and their faith? Nothing bad about them? Are they going to hell for being Jews? etc. Thanks for everyone's input up front.

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Dave

Jesus is the difference between Christianity and Judaism. Read the book of Hebrews. It is a letter written to the Hebrew Christians who may have been contemplating a return to Judaism. The author of Hebrews is arguing that Christianity is essentially a "new and improved" Judaism, a new way to God, through Jesus, who died in order to atone for the sins of the world. Followers would no longer have to make animal sacrifices to God, because Jesus died as "the perfect sacrifice". That is why Jewish people still follow many rituals and customs, while Christianity finds sufficiency in a faith in Jesus alone. Jesus is the "bridge" between God and Man. According to Christianity, man is saved by grace through faith, not works.

The most famous verse in the bible is John 3:16. Jesus told a religious figure named Nicodemus, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." He also stated,"I tell you the truth, no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless he is born again." He later explained that "born again" means a spiritual rebirth, not a physical rebirth. This spiritual rebirth occurs when one accepts Jesus as a saviour from their sins, which results in the Holy Spirit entering into them. People who claim to be "born again" have had this sort of spiritual renewal.

Revelation 20 talks about Hell as a "lake of fire." Verses 14 and 15 state: "Then death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." John's vision is fairly black and white -- if by faith we have not identified with Christ, there will be no second chance after we die. So, unfortunately, Christians (Catholics and protestants) would argue that if you hold the belief that Jesus was not the messiah, which is what Jews believe, you will go to hell.

Of course, you can be ethnically Jewish (like Jesus himself) and be a Christian. What you do with Jesus is the issue. I believe that the Jews are still waiting for a messiah, while Christians believe that he has already come and will come again in judgment.

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Buy "Stereotype Be" from Kevin Max at Amazon.com

You could have just summed it up with your last sentence.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"Pray that your country undergoes recovery!" - KMFDM

Theologybuzz. :)

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--Maddie--
"yes I am on the online street team"
Wha? Online. . .street. Online. . . street.

Dave... thanks for moving this discussion forward.

Kevin... thanks for responding to Dave from a Christian perspective.

Jeff... thanks for continuing to bring a voice of reason to these forums... regardless of the subject matter (rollercoasters, theme parks, or various theologies, etc.). You always manage to moderate with intelligence, wit, and unparalleled wisdom. Webmasters of other public discussion boards could learn a lot from someone like you...

I have more to say about this subject, but I've grown weary after a long night of work... perhaps tomorrow.

Take care...

-GH

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Revelation 20 talks about Hell as a "lake of fire." Verses 14 and 15 state: "Then death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire.

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Heee hee hee hee hee hee hee.

Okay, Nasai--you wanted your little fun so here ya go.

How do you set Death on fire? What color is the flame when Death burns? Does Death have a particular smell when lit like a torch?

Isn't Hades the word translated "Hell" in many other places in the NT? And now it's a burnin', too?

How does a God of Perfect Justice roast somebody for thousands of years for 70-90 years of screwing up? Or a God that epitomizes love?

When your pastor says, "Ashes to ashes and dust to dust", he's repeating God's sentence to Adam for eating from the tree. Why didn't He tell Adam he was goin' to Hell?

More hand grenades where that came from, so watch your step...

-'Playa
(who sez: If you have to ask, no...I'm not Jay-Dub)

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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya 6/6/2003 2:27:33 PM ***

Playa... that was awesome. Where do you generate this stuff from? BTW, if you want to get nitpicky, the reality of Hell (don't ask because I don't know crap about where in the Bible this might be :)) as I (either imagined or not) believe it to be is the absence of God. That particular place (whatever that is) will be cast, at the end of days, into the Lake of Fire (capitalized for maximum effect). So sayeth the Lordeth. Oh, and by the way, if you haven't seen the winking in every F-ing post I have made in the past 2 days on this subject, then you aren't playing at home very well. Roll another set of doubles, and you land smack dab in the jailhouse. Again, I forward all of you to my favorite site, the Land of Baptists.

Rob - who bows quickly to Playa's wit, and wisdom.:)
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There is trouble afoot. - Don't fret.*** This post was edited by nasai 6/6/2003 2:57:04 PM ***

I haven't read al the responses, but here's my two cents worth. Pick another way to witness for the Lord, I truly believe that even if you did get the permission to fly the banners that they would just be ignored after a while by the people. Face to face "conversations", what ever happened to that as a way of communicating the gospel.

Very nice site there nasai.

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Check out this awesome park!http://games.coasterbuzz.com/filedetail.aspx?GameFileID=3001

Thanks. I just wish it was mine. The movie reviews are top notch. ;)
How's about checking out MY site?
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There is trouble afoot. - Don't fret.

Cool site - always nice to see Christian bashing and stereotyping so accepted.

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Walt Schmidt - Virtual Midway
"Okay, here we are, alt dot nerd dot obsessive." - Comic Book Guy

Den said: "Jesus also said to remove the plank in your own eye before you point out the speck in someone else's eye."

What eye? ;)

Seriously, step outside the glass house for a moment and take a good look at the world around...if no one hits you with a rock, go back inside and live as you please, harming none and having a *heck* of a good time...:)

Are you ever going to stop whoring your band nasai?

You think a guy would stop after every buzzer has visited his site thanks to the clever tags for the link in his sig.

-Phil, just joking.

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Check out this awesome park!http://games.coasterbuzz.com/filedetail.aspx?GameFileID=3001