Christian group says Disney no-fly zone interferes with free speech

I find it a bit strange that here on a "coaster" website, where people are ridiculed for posting things that are actually very relevant and interesting to talk about like what new rides may be coming to a certain park, and what their "top 10" lists are, and asking for an idea of how crowded parks will be from those who might have a better idea, and some posts are just shut down right away; that this blatent divergence from topic into political, religious, and sexual arguments has been allowed to go on so long. (how's that for a run on sentence! ;-)

And you want to talk about "flaming"? Some of the stuff posted here from certain posters has been downright disgusting in it's degrading nature, and is the stuff that should be banned, not whether or not you think CP is running out of room, or they will build a 500ft woodie next year.

That's all I'm going to say on this thread, but I just think the people on this website should stick to the main reason we are all here, coasters, and our love for them, and not get off into the type of issues better reserved for other websites. That's just my take, and I hope nobody is offended.

Take care and God bless!

I can't settle every arguement because I am not apart of this campaign, so just read their arguement...I can give you arguement on everything from the Hindus and the caste system to the Mormans Biblical continuation, but I'm not the master nor a follower of any of these.

Before any of you repost on this topic, please review the following statement

The FPN's answer to almost all your arguements can be found here-http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/dallas-expanded.html / http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/dallas.html

As I stated, I don't necessarily agree with them, but that is their case. That is why I spoke using references to "their, them, they, etc..."

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Lake Compounce-So Fresh and So Clean Clean

I would like to thank the moderators for allowing this thread to exist on a website that is known for limiting discussions. An interest in theme parks and coasters has brought people together on this site, and the origianl topic relates directly to that interest. Discussions often take twists and turns in ways that are meaningful to the people involved. This discussion clearly interests many people, and it has developed, mostly respectfully, with people voicing their thoughts rationally even if they disagree. I'm glad we all got to participate in this today.

You realize, somewhat, that when you speak of verses in the Bible, or many other religious texts, you're dealing with a volume that's been translated through thousands of years into hundreds of different languages. Each time, the opinion and interpretation of those translators adds a certain 'spin' to the tale.

Furthermore, the meaning and usage of words in any langauge changes over time.

On some level, it seems silly to interpret such a document so strictly and try to adhere to its word when we didn't have the decency or respect in the first place to keep the language's sanctity intact.

If, in two thousand years, the meaning of 'right' and 'left' has switched, should New Jersey still prohibit left turns? ;)

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--Maddie--

This topic is closed. You may not reply.
This topic was closed before you could reply.
Foiled again.

Alright-- I'll step in for Vertigo here.

I Corinthians 5:9 (King James Version)

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idoloters, notr adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nore revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

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Buy "Stereotype Be" from Kevin Max at Amazon.com

I realize this discussion has basically developed into one about homosexuality itself, but I'd like to go back to the idea of "free speech" for a moment...

I personally think it does very little to prevent terrorism, but if the "No-Fly" zone is supposed to theoretically be a government imposed security measure, is it really appropriate to put the park and its customers at risk in the name "free speech"? How does this exactly infringe upon any one particular group's liberties? Seeing as this event is supposed to be "Gay Day", should the government be considered inherently homophobic if say, a GLBT group wanted to fly a Rainbow flag over the park and was told not to due to the same "No-Fly" zone? I think not.

This little piece of legislation impacts everyone equally and was created to protect our citizens (regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation) from harm. Regardless of how effective or ineffective the flight restrictions may be, to suggest that they should have some special right to put others in danger for the sake of spouting their own opinions is inconsiderate and, dare I say, Immoral.

To use an extreme example - If someone was to print up a bunch of flyers promoting their political or religious views, should they be allowed to toss buckets of them into oncoming traffic to get their point across? Although the blizzard of paper would put drivers and pedestrians in danger, should that person argue that they have the right to distribute their flyers in that manner because the have "freedom of speech"? Of course not.

While flying an airplane over a Theme park may not be quite as dangerous as blinding drivers on a freeway with leaflets, it still potentially puts innocent people at risk for selfish reasons. Do I think the group should be silenced and not allowed to express their views? Of course not. Do I agree with them? Of course not.

Apparently this particular organization wants to fly a banner that says "JESUS CHRIST: HOPE FOR HOMOSEXUALS.COM." Now I'm not sure what Disney's dress code or decency policy is, but I don't see the park telling anyone they couldn't wear a t-shirt, cap, or button emblazoned with those words. Couldn't this particular Christian group express their freedom of speech by walking around the park wearing shirts to get the message across instead of flying a banner?

I suppose this group (the Family Policy Network, as they are called), could decide to flood the park with people preaching their gospel proudly on their chests, but I doubt they will.

The reality is that any Gay or Lesbian person who happened to see a t-shirt, cap, button, or banner with those words printed on it would do would do one of three things:

1) Buckle over in hysterical laughter.

2) Make some catty remark about the person's outfit.

3) Simply choose to ignore it, but feel sorry for anyone would be so ignorant as to think that it is possible to change someone's sexual orientation --- it's 2003 for "Cripes" sake!

I guess ridicule is a lot easier to take from thousands of feet in the air than from 10 feet away in a queue line...

Happy Gay Day everyone!

*** This post was edited by djgreghaus 6/5/2003 12:16:51 AM ***

At the other side of the Atlantic Ocean (Amsterdam to be precise) we have this simple rule...

Do whatever you want to do, but don't bother other people with your actions!

When i'm walking down a crowded street and i feel like holding hands with my boyfriend, i just do so. I don't feel like if i'm provoking other people with that action. When i feel like giving my boyfriend a little kiss on the cheek, i just do so...
Exactly how a heterosexual couple would do. But i still have some moral values and i'm not going to make out 100% with my boyfriend in a crowded street.
Again; Exactly how a heterosexual couple would show their affection in public, even at WDW

If a straight couple with a bunch of kids were walking down the same street, and one of the kids would say to their mom: "Why are those guys holding hands?" Couldn't the mother just say: " Well, those two guys really love eachother, just as much as i love your father" .....?

It's as simple as that.

Second... I'm not trying to convince Christian people that homosexuality is a normal way of life, so why are some Christians still trying to convince homosexuals that their way of life is wrong? (My way of life!)
They get their arguments from the bible... but why won't they just understand that some people don't believe the things they believe in?

(by the way... i've been raised as a Christian and i still visit church every sunday, but my Christian community accepts me as being gay and focusses on the most important aspect of religion: Respect all humans and consider all as equal)

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Werner Stengel: Ich spreche, denke und träume Achterbahn!

Guys - I never said there wasn't anything in the Bible about homosexuality - I'm just saying Christ himself never bothered with it. Actually, He really doesn't say much in that book, but pretty much everything He does say has to do with peace, love, forgiveness, and acceptance of the "wicked" and unloved. Awesome dude, if you think about it ... I wish more people that called themselves Christians followed His actual words ...

Anyway, I still think that this thread, overall, has maintained a fairly decent level of respectfullness.

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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill.

Wow,

I was finally able to trudge through all of those overnight posts. Gay - good, gay - bad...you know what? It doesn't matter.

Disney is a business. If Disney decided to ban gays from attending their parks or not support this Gay Day celebration it would be a bad business decision. If statistics are correct and 20% of the population is gay or otherwise "not-straight", why would they want to shun that business? Particularly, in this crappy economy?

Disney's support of gay rights through it's employment practices is also a sound business decision. If 20% of Disney's workforce is gay then 12,000 cast members are gay. To give partner benefits is a smart business decision in an environment where filling positions is becoming more competitive.

I have been in the parks a couple of times during Gay Days and worked there for one as well. I saw no behavior that was more offensive than what I would see out of the average horny, young, heterosexual couple.

Bottom line, if you don't like it...don't support Disney with your dollars. I suspect losing your money will be of minimal impact on the company compared to the amount of money they are making from gay folks.

Vetigo: Those links say nothing. They only offer ambiguous interpretation. Hitler interpreted the Bible to mean that Jews should be slaughtered, too, but I hardly think that's what God had in mind.

Kevin Max: Pick another translation. I checked a couple of other versions and the same verse says only, "I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people." Ha... that could mean anything. That's the problem with a book that has been in the hands of mankind for 2000 years. The thing has been manipulated and raped into whatever people at the time felt met their own standards.

The funny thing is that Christianity (and indeed every major religion) teaches basic fundamental human respect. Yet in every religion there are people who use it to try and strike down that which they don't like or understand. Somehow that makes them more righteous, as if someone is keeping score.

I find it amazing in this day and age, with information being so readily available, that people just take what they've been spoon-fed and trust it to be an absolute truth. Can you really have faith if you haven't questioned it?

gardner14: We don't limit discussions here, that's just nonsense made up by people who had hurt feelings about something we did here. We just don't care to see the same damn things over and over again, or uninteresting stuff like top ten lists and superlative threads (they don't lead to discussion, just lists).

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"Pray that your country undergoes recovery!" - KMFDM

Spewey, I'm trying to clariy what these people believe, so bear with me...

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Like I said previously, it goes deeper into the religion of Christianity. Christians are followers of God. It is to this belief and the message of the Bible that the God expresses himself in three forms: the Father(Heaven), the Son(Earth), and the Holy Spirit(Within).

The message spread through Christ, were and are, in Christianity, God's words. In a sense, the entire Bible is seen as God's word because it is His message told through various forms and people.

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To put it simply, in their belief, Christ is God in another form.

Thanking the foundation for allowing me to post the following text from their "Telling the Truth" campaign, here what they have to say:

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text removed because it has already been linked to. that's what the Internet does... hyperlink. don't waste my bandwidth. -J

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Lake Compounce-So Fresh and So Clean Clean
*** This post was edited by Jeff 6/5/2003 11:06:58 AM ***

Homosexuality is found in every species of the animal world. God gave us free will. We will do what we aspire to do whether it is in the bible or not.

If someone leads a good, christian life and happens to be a homosexual I believe that person will be accepted into heaven.

The Catholic faith teaches that there should be no intervention in reproduction. Thus, we are not to use birth control and we are not to interfere by using fertility treatments, in-vitro, etc. Well, my wife and I had trouble getting pregnant. We chose to go to fertility doctors and had a procedure to help us get pregnant. I confessed this to my priest and told him I was concerned about the teachings of the church and my decision to ignore those teachings.

My priests response? "Let me know if it works." My preist has baptized our child and blesses him every week. I don't think my priest thinks we are going to go to hell and I don't believe I will either.

I suspect that the powers-that-be at Disney aren't going to go to hell for supporting a Gay Days celebration nor for giving health benefits to gay partners. They might go to hell for making "Treasure Planet" and "Cinderella II" but that is another story.

Homosexuality is found in every species of the animal world.

First of all that is a streach. Second rape, murder and theft are also found in the animal world. Are these things O.K. also then?

God gave us free will. We will do what we aspire to do whether it is in the bible or not.

God also gave us rules. What if a person aspires to have sex with farm animals or children?

If someone leads a good, christian life and happens to be a homosexual

Many believe that the two are mutually exclusive.

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How do i explain to my five year old wwhat is going on? its not something that is meant for an audience at Disney ITS DISNEY, the HApPIEST place on earth.

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The same way you explain to him how he was conceived--or born. You keep it really really vague.

Then again--since according to your profile you're roughly 18, the same way you explain how you got to be a Dad at 13. I'd have a tougher time explaining that one myself.

-CO

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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.

Oh jimster, I can see I ruffled your feathers.

God gave us free will, yes. I wasn't comparing "sins" to other "sins". A homosexual act is the act of two people exercising free will. If a person aspires to have sex with a child, that child is not likely exercising his/her free will. Likewise in the case of rape, murder, or theft.

It is not a stretch to say that homosexuality occurs in every species of the animal world...it is a fact that has been well documented but not well publicized.

Finally, I wasn't telling you what many believe...I was telling you what I believe. I frankly don't have any problem with homosexual folks. I have friends and relatives who are gay. It is my opinion that unless they do something heinous like kill someone I will likely be sharing a spot with them at the table of God.

OK, Jeff, I was hoping one illustration would be enough, but I guess I'll have to dig deeper. Again, I'm not a gay-basher by any means, I'm just trying to illustrate that I think it is naive to think that the Bible has nothing to say about homosexuality.

Romans 1: 26-27: (NIV i.e. generally the most respected translation)

"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men commited indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. "

This last passage was written by the apostle Paul, who met Jesus on the Damascus road and has arguably been the most influencial figure in Christianity besides Jesus. But, for a proclamation from "The Big G" himself (God), look no further than Levitucs 18:22 (NIV), when God, instructing Moses on sexual standards he is to impart to the Israelites, proclaims : "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

Again, I'm not for flying banners over theme parks, but there is biblical basis for opposing homosexuality. It is silly to think that a banner would change many people's lifestyles, but, if they change one person, it could be considered a worthwhile endeavor. With regard to the "Love your neighbor" argument --I believe that the Christian viewpoint is that they are loving their neighbor by attempting to change a lifestyle that they believe is hindering there fellowship with God. (Sort of like 2Hostyl said a way back). Look at Matthew 25: 31-46. Of course, the issues is, is this an effective method?

But, it should be done in a fahion that is caring, not condemning. I believe Jesus would befriend homosexuals, and would not ostacize them, but would probably try to change them.

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Buy "Stereotype Be" from Kevin Max at Amazon.com

Dear god they go to Disney to have a good time...let them...I hope if they fly the plane it crashes...hows that for free speech?

Well, nobody said that free speech had to be intelligent speech. The bible also encouraged stoning. Where are those rocks when I need them?

Once again, justice calls for your good friend Cap'n Obvious to play an old familiar sporting event. Cue the advertising, will ya?

Sunday Sunday Sunday....
at your church church church
Come one come all for a

PSEUDO-CHRISTIANNNNNNNN HYPOCRITE
SMACKDOWN SMACKDOWN SMACKDOWN

Kids only $5
Good seats still available
drop a little extra in the collection plate and get a freeee

okay you get the idea.

Welcome to the event, ladies and gentlemen and it looks like it's a gonna be a doozy! We've got clouds of dust blown off a' Bibles, pages a' turnin' everywhere, people goin' down with paper cuts....it's just action-packed!

But let's look at these hard-earned Scriptures here in sloooooow motion:

I Corinthians 5:9 (King James Version)
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idoloters, notr adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nore revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

Well huuuuuuush puppies! I'm seein big words a plenty here.
But what do they mean?

Adulterers - heterosexual sex with another besides your mate
Fornicators - anybody unmarried who does that hetero thang
Covetous - people who want a little hetero action they can't get

So if you read the whole verse--not just what you wanna--it looks like the pillow munchers will have an awful lot of company. You know...Jerry Falwell, that guy with the ex-wife with all the mascara, your roving-eyed Uncle Tommy, anybody who 'got lucky' back in high school and last but not least any one of you who hit the 'rewind' button during one-a-them teen movie moments. Hell's gonna have a longer line than TTD with one train!

Speakin' of which, why don't the Christian banner-wavin' protesters go where the real action is? We need more people marchin' at the nightclubs on Saturday nights, the video stores that rent R-rated movies, the inner-city high schools where the pregnancy rates are staggering...you know, somewhere you cowards would actually risk getting your lily-white intolerant asses kicked. No wonder you come in bunches instead of in twos as Christ's followers were instructed to (Luke 10:1). Wussies.

-CO

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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
*** This post was edited by 6/5/2003 11:47:01 AM ***

Is the term "wussie" in the Bible? I don't recall running across that one.