Cedar Fair Season Pass Announcement Soon

Good. Maybe they are realizing their menu options of season passes is assinine and are going back to the traditional way of selling passes.

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Chitown said:O.K. I am a little confused with this new season pass pricing menu...(snip)...This GL add on and now Maxx Pass really doesn't make sense to me.

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You think YOU'RE confused. The guys sitting around the CF boardroom have BIG $$$ at stake, and they're more confused than we are. Before GL, their parks were SPREAD, geographically, and they followed the lead of the other chains that had *reciprocal* season-pass arrangements. GL came in, and CF obviously didn't have a clear idea on how to market the SPs. Now they've got all these ADDITIONAL parks (most notably, PKI), and they're still trying to figure out price points, accessibility to other parks, etc.

Clearly, CF is NOT going to make the SF mistake of giving away SPs. CF is smarter than THAT (then again, who isn't?). But seriously, you guys have all signed in to CF parks with your passes from who-knows-where. Those clipboards are almost always near-empty.

"Regular" people DON'T travel that much to visit amusement parks, plain and simple. (Swoosh's Show-Me-Staters potentially excluded, LOL). Why tick off those VERY few guests who really do give you SO much good publicity, for just SO little money. Doesn't make sense....the relationship between parks and enthusiasts IS mutually-beneficial - count up how many people YOU have sent to various parks around the country in the past ten years or so....I know I've done my bit for the industry, LOL...

Just think that, other than the proximity of GL to CP, there's really not much to be gained by nickel-and-diming the various SP options...you're not Disney, never gonna be... ;)

*** Edited 8/24/2006 4:01:13 PM UTC by rollergator***

So you agree with me Gator? :)

Why menu price Season Passes if people that buy season passes and visit other parks is so minimal? It's not worth the headache of doing add-ons etc. It won't hurt the bottom line. *** Edited 8/24/2006 4:44:06 PM UTC by Chitown***

Wait. If no one uses the perk, why does it matter again? Because enthusaists are important?

Um. Okay. It seems to me that you guys are thinking only of yourselves. Yes, it might suck for enthusiasts, but it's not going to ruin it for the vast majority of passholders. Heck, I haven't used my CP combo pass at any other CF park for nearly two years running, just becuase I don't have the time to travel. The last time I signed in with a foreign pass was at Knott's in September of '04.

The advantage to having park-only passes is that it allows each park to price strictly for their own market and needs, without worrying about repurcussions for the other parks. The three Ohio parks clearly have to worry about this---Cleveland is shared by GL and CP, and Columbus is shared by GL/CP and PKI. Dorney and PKD split the DC/Baltimore area.

Some of the Paramount parks have had season passes that are a bit cheaper than similar passes at many CF parks. I think I paid all of $70 for a season pass at Carowinds.

I also suspect that MiA's passes are possibly too expensive---they need four visits for a payoff---only because of its proximity to CP. Compare MiA's pass cost to WoF's, and tell me that makes sense. If there were an MiA-only pass, it might be possible to price it a bit more competitively.

For many guests, adding a "limited exchange benefits" pass might prevent large price increases---just as was done with GL.

I'll agree that it would be a shame if there wasn't a reasonably-priced add-on option to buy a chain-wide pass (that was perhaps a standard price across all of the parks), but it's not the end of the world if there isn't one.

It is so infrequently used that it's not going to make a big difference to the park or most guests one way or the other. It might make a difference to us, but as you may recall, we are not normal.

Dude, I am far from being the greedy enthusiast.

Heck, I have never owned a CF pass.

My point is, if the traveler of a season pass is so minimal, why bother trying to do add on prices of these passes? You aren't going to generate any real revenue from it.

What if someone bought a pass at the beginning of the year thinking he would just use the pass at his home park and maybe 4 months down the road decides to travel to an area where another park in the same family exists?

Parks rely on in park spending more then anything. Admission revenue is not a businesses main concern.

CF before GL and Paramount did the exact same thing as SF. All of a sudden now it's an issue?

I think there is a legitimate issue with CP and GL--namely, low-priced GL passes that are valid at CP would cannibalize CP pass sales in Cleveland, one of their most important markets. But, a high-priced GL pass simply wasn't justified. The solution they came up with those two parks makes sense.

The GL+CP pass was more affordable than it would have been to buy a SFWoA pass plus a CP pass, and you can even argue that that made sense, as GL was 1/2 or 2/3 what SFWoA was.

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if the traveler of a season pass is so minimal, why bother trying to do add on prices of these passes? You aren't going to generate any real revenue from it.

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I get this, but that wouldn't be true for someone living in Columbus. They're 1.5 hours to PKI, and 2.5 hrs to CP. That's not materially different for a lot of people. Why should someone who lives in Columbus get to pay half as much as he did last year to visit PKI and CP next year, just because ownership changes? Again, the new Maxx Pass is less than the cost of a Paramount pass plus a Cedar Fair pass, but one gets the benefits that would have accrued with having both. Plus, if the old PKI pricing is going to stick, a PKI-only guest is not paying much more next year for their pass as they did last year, and that's the vast majority of PKI passholders.

So, people who would visit both parks more than 1-2 times each pay less next year than they do this year, and people who would only visit one pay the same amount. That sounds like an okay deal to me.

And, for what it's worth, this model is not without precedent: it is very close to the Busch model. By default, their passes are valid only at the local park(s). If you want one good everywhere, you have to buy two years' worth.

Disney doesn't do this at all---no one location's annual pass is good anywhere else.

Finally, I completely disagree with this:

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Parks rely on in park spending more then anything. Admission revenue is not a businesses main concern.

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That's completely nuts. No one who is not a passholder gets into a CF park for much less than $25 per day, anywhere---and at many places it is more. (Anecdotally, day ticket holders out-number passholders---just look a the length of the admission lines at CP, which are segregated.) Per-capita spending (which includes admission and in-park spending) is $38, chain-wide.

So, admission is about 2/3 of total in-park revenue. You *sure* that it doesn't matter? Disney's CEO even said that admission is the most important component to their per-capita as well, running at about 60%.

There is one park operator that did seem to behave as if admission didn't matter, and only in-park spending did. The Burke-era Six Flags. And we all know how well that worked out.

Yes, Kings Island has taken the information off the season pass webpage. (Maybe it appeared there prematurely)

However, the season pass program along with its prices is detailed in this press release:

http://www3.paramountparks.com/kingsisland/news/detail.cfm?item_id=426

Notice the graphic for a MaxxPass (on the Media Center page) does not say Kings Island, or Paramount Kings Island, or even Paramount Parks, like the 2007 Canada's Wonderland pass does, instead it claims to be a Cedar Fair season pass.

Rideman is right, I think its too early to decide what the best pass deal will be for 2007.

Since the park I visit most is PKI, the Maxx Pass sounds like my best deal, but if your home park is say Cedar Point, what kind of deal will Cedar Point offer you? On one hand if you had both passes this year, it would seem to make since to only renew the Paramount pass, take the free PKI parking upgrade, but then you would have to pay to park at Cedar Point.

It's getting as bad as Magic Your Way is "Cedar Fair Maxx Pass + PKI Gold Pass Perks + Free PKI Parking + paying per diem parking fees at Cedar Point" a better or worse deal than "Cedar Point pass + Cedar Point Parking Pass + paying per diem parking fees at Kings Island"

Too many unknowns, as we don't know what privilieges Cedar Point passes will offer next year, nor do we know the pricing on CP passes or parking upgrades.

Too liitle information to make an informed decision.

So, how many Canadas Wonderland fans will go to Geauga Lake or Cedar Point to purchase a pass. Again, we'll have to see what those two parks offer next year.

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Brian Noble said:It seems to me that you guys are thinking only of yourselves. Yes, it might suck for enthusiasts, but it's not going to ruin it for the vast majority of passholders.

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Wopw, first time since SFMM's closure announcement came up that someone's said I was "thinking about myself", LOL. Nope. Couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, I spend between 10-15% of my (limited) GROSS income doing this coaster enthusiast travel gig - without leaving the US/Canada - so obviously it's important to me. I'll never forget the girl that got *paired up* with me on Idlewild's Eli wheel saying "wow, you must be RICH to go to that many parks". Not.Even.Close.LOL!

No, for me, the entire Po!nt of the discussion here is about the INDUSTRY. Sure, I have fun talking about what rides I like/dislike, what moves I think are good/bad for parks/chains, etc. But my number one priority, without a doubt, is the industry and its continued health. Stuff like this comes up, and my thought is "What's best for CF?". Really. No doubt in my mind.

Where CF and I *may* differ (hard to tell with so little information coming out) is HOW to maximize revenues without alienating guests. not guests like me, I'm one in a million. Guests like John and Jane Doe, with their 1.8 kids or however many they have...;)

*** Edited 8/24/2006 7:04:23 PM UTC by rollergator***

Fair enough.

So, let's assume that PKI's announced pricing plan sticks. Accounting for the typical early-season discount, PKI-only will be about $90, and chain-wide will be about $140.

How does it alienate the average guest or harm the company? I claim it doesn't. They didn't travel before, so they don't lose anything they get this year, or pay substantially more than they did this year.

How does it alienate the traveling guest or harm the company? Again, I claim it doesn't. The traveling guest (who likely has both Cedar Fair and Paramount passes this year) is getting the same set of parks for less money than s/he did this year.

Edited to add: actually, maybe it does harm the company---the combined entity now derives less income from the traveling guest this year than the two separate companies did last year.

So, perhaps the chain-wide pass should cost even more. ;)

*** Edited 8/24/2006 7:17:32 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

For this season, I paid $85 for Kings Island and $174 for Cedar Point and Geauga Lake. That got me admission to all of the Paramount parks and all of the Cedar Fair parks, with parking at all three Ohio parks.

Am I the only one who thinks that if Cedar Fair comes up with a deal that includes admission and parking at all three Ohio parks for less than $259 it might be considered a pretty good deal?

And the preliminary pricing on the Cedar Fair pass is quite a lot cheaper than that!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Count me as one not complaining, last year I spent $250 on passes living in DC (BGE/WCUSA and HP) for the ablility to go to two parks and a water park. For at most the same price Ill be able to go to 4 parks (If I get the urge to ride ST) and 3 water parks. Ohioans need to stop complaining ;).

I highly doubt that my WOF pass is going to be affected by the Ohio Dilema. I'm sure when it is all said and done WOF will once again be the cheapest pass in the chain. ;)

$125 is a DEAL! Who would pay $75 for a PKI-only pass?

Even if you are not an enthusiast and/or only go to the parks in Ohio you would be INSANE not to get the Maxx Pass. I am definitely getting one.

-Tina

I emailed PCW today about this very topic. Here is the response.

Thank you for contacting Paramount Canada's Wonderland.

Unfortunately we do not have any plans for a promotional season pass that allow you entrance into other parks I do apologize for the inconvenience this causes you and I will certainly forward your concerns off to the appropriate management team.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us at 905-832-8131.

Sincerely,

Kelli
Guest Service Coordinator

Guest and Information Services
Paramount Canada's Wonderland

Wow, that sounds asinine. You'd think they'd offer the Maxx Pass since Kings Island is doing so. Anyone hear from other Cedar Fair/Paramount parks for '07 passes about validity?

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coasterqueenTRN said:
$125 is a DEAL! Who would pay $75 for a PKI-only pass?

Even if you are not an enthusiast and/or only go to the parks in Ohio you would be INSANE not to get the Maxx Pass. I am definitely getting one.

-Tina

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I live in Cleveland, and drive for Famly Dollar out of Morehead, Ky. You would be surprised how many people I talk to at the stores in WV, KY or even southern Ohio, never heard of Cedar Point!! The ones that did had no idea it had coasters big than PKI!!!

1EJ

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Brian Noble said:

The advantage to having park-only passes is that it allows each park to price strictly for their own market and needs, without worrying about repurcussions for the other parks. The three Ohio parks clearly have to worry about this---Cleveland is shared by GL and CP, and Columbus is shared by GL/CP and PKI. Dorney and PKD split the DC/Baltimore area.

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In 7 years in this area I haven't heard *one* non-enthusiast mention Dorney. It's strickly, PKD, SFA, SFGAdv, BGE, and HP (pretty much in that order).

^from a former DC resident I concur. Besides why would the GP care about a park that is further from SFA, PKD, BGE, and HP. You pretty much have every facet of the GP with those parks.

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Brian Noble said:
And, for what it's worth, this model is not without precedent: it is very close to the Busch model. By default, their passes are valid only at the local park(s). If you want one good everywhere, you have to buy two years' worth.

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My thoughts exactly. (And yes, I'm a Busch Platinum passholder :) )

The tiered pricing structure makes perfect sense to me. This addition of 5 more parks to the "Cedar Fair Family" means that a multi-park season pass is now worth even more. Hence, they should charge more FOR it. Since the majority of the patrons won't actually USE that multi-park feature, it wouldn't be fair to charge a higher price to everyone across the board. This was especially the case with Cedar Point and Geauga Lake (as Brian said, a cheap GL pass good at Cedar Point would have severely cannibalized CP's pass sales), and for a good part of central Ohio a similar situation happens between King's Island and Cedar Point.

The more I think about it, the more I WOULDN'T be surprised if this "Maxx option" ends up at ALL the parks, not just the Ohio Trilogy. And while that somewhat affects me personally, I don't think it's a bad thing (Dorney + Maxx or PKD + Maxx will still cost less than Dorney + PKD)