"Carowind's Flyers"
Jeff said:
Someday enthusiasts will realize they account for 0.01% of the park-going population. Probably not until they stop offering us ERT.
Uh, You of all people should know you purchase ERT.
Perks are offered and PKI is one of the greatest and I give them praise for that.
But really, when do perks outweigh a overal park experience? Personally I don't think the carousel is safe in a corperations quest to turn a $. What do they care if some mom and son can ride together and share smiles
Somebody, I think Playa wrote about people taking it to the press. We someone did and it wasn't enthusiasts. It was 7 year old girls and parents that didn't want the ride to go. It was also year old girls getting 700 signatures.
When I find the article. I'll post the link.
Chuck
Jeff said:
We clearly have different opinions about what constitutes immoral business practices. The Wal-Mart actions you mention hardly have the impact or importance of anything Paramount Parks has ever done. Ever.
I can only hope that this a poorly-executed attempt at sarcasm.
I am in no way implying that what Paramount did is on par with the unethical business practices that are commonplace at Wal-Mart, all I'm saying is that good will and charitable contributions do not exempt a corporation from any kind of criticism. I don't think that was too hard to deduce from what I said.
And I don't care how small the percentage of a park's customers are enthusiasts- as long as those enthusiasts are paying money to a park for admission, food, drink or souveniers, they are PAYING CUSTOMERS. And the last time I checked, all paying customers are important to a business regardless of who they are.
If an amusement park can't deal with the fact that the complete 100% of their customers aren't going to support every decision they make, they should get out of the entertainment industry. And if you think that it's wrong for people on this message board to badmouth something that a park does, you should get out of the enthusiast forum business. This is light-hearted criticism- nothing more than commentary on something that took place- lighten up.
*** Edited 3/17/2005 2:25:23 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***
Anyway, I'm not sorry the flyers are gone. Complain all you want, they are gone and there's nothing you can do that will bring them back. I have been disappointed over the years by PKI removing certain rides that brought back childhood memories like Der Spinnin' Keggers, the Bayern Curve, the Rotor, the Skyline, the Zodiac, Kenton Cove's Keelboat Canal, the King Kobra. Yes, some were removed for maintenance reasons I'm sure, but this will not keep me from coming back. Why? Because there are always new memories to be made and I make sure that every trip is memorable and enjoyable. And, like Jeff and some of the others have stated, I simply like being there. I like sitting under the Eiffel Tower enjoying a good waffle cone with soft serve vanilla and people watching. I especially love to see the kids' faces because I can remember a time, not so long ago, that I had that same exact feeling of excitement, wonder, and magic that PKI supplies for us. The overall reason I go is simple escapism. It's not about riding the tallest, fastest, only whatever record is currently broken. It's about getting away from my job and place where I live, and every day life. Yeah, I like the kick butt coasters and rides too, but to me the entire experience is so much more than that.
For argument's sake lets say the flyers are still at PKI. You go to the park and notice the ride is on the list of attractions closed for the day.
Do you still go in the park?
PKD's policy is part of what had me convinced that PCar's rule would follow suit...glad to be wrong there! :)
Flyers are by NO means the only ride in the park, but they ARE a large part of the visit to any park that has them, and one of the *very* few mechanical rides where guests can create their own experience.
<-------runs and hides from the Cinci folks. :-D
As far as DDR, it's not for everyone. I know I look stupid playing it (in a cool way of course.) ;-) That's what makes it fun for me, and manages to keep me in SOMEWHAT good shape. lol.
-Tina
*** Edited 3/17/2005 6:13:25 PM UTC by coasterqueenTRN***
Surely you do not think that the park took them apart just to thwart an ERT session. Heck, seemingly every year for Coastermania at CP the large new attraction is inoperable. And of course enthusiasts take it as some sort of personal slap. I find it laughable.... sh*t happens. But I hardly fault a park for changing an ert session because a ride is having isues.
I have to say, the Con at PKD turned out to be one of the absolute best enthusiast events I have attended. I can't tell you how many positive responses that the park, and ACE received over that week. Paramount Parks really raised the bar on the Con's festivities. Gator, I think I know you better and hope you didn't walk away from that week focused on one very minor change. There were countless wonderful things that happened.
It's amazing how heated any discussion about a beloved park can become. I have often equated enthusiast's views on their favorite coasters and parks to that of a sports fan's gusto for a team or player. Some feel so passionate that they get their toes stepped on or feelings hurt should their beloved get criticized. While others thrive on overstating their disdain in order to instigate a heated discussion.
Those that feel so very passionate and hurt about PKI removing the Eagles are absolutely entitled to the opinion. Although I was not a fan, when I first caught wind of the removal I expressed my concerns to the powers that be. I did not agree with the decision and worried it was made in haste.
There's a whole back story I could go into about that ride and how it was on and off chopping block and how there was internal politicing to keep it vs move it. However, in the end, the decision was made, the ride removed and I chalked it up.
I've learned that sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees. PKI, in the past, has proven that their outstanding long-range plans far succeed the present changes they may make. Heck, everyone squawked (although not quite as loudly) when they removed King Cobra. However, what took it's place was, IMO, the single best new attraction PKI has added in 20 years...Delirium.
I like to think that there are better things in store at PKI. I love seeing their changes, and I love returning to check out the improvements that the park makes not only year to year, but day to day as well. The park has improved 90% over it's operation in the early 1990's. Their draw and increasing numbers prove that, especially in a time when countless other parks are taking large hits economically and in attendance.
PKI is not, nor will ever be, everybody's cup of tea. Heck, they know that more than anyone. But for us peons on the outside looking in, sitting in judgement of internal decisions is silly. I just sit back, relax, and see what they have in store. They're smart, and they know what they are doing.
Shaggy
*** Edited 3/17/2005 6:43:48 PM UTC by Shaggy***
Shaggy
Yes, I would visit and there were days the flyers were closed or opened way late (Limited op days in late may/early june)
I never said I wouldn't visit now. I said it wouldn't be nearly as often. Friend calls, "Meet me friday at 6pm at the flyers" I was so there!
Chuck
Instead of not visiting the park because of it, I am probably going to spend more time than ever at the park as it looks like IJ is going to be a great ride.
-Sean (who will hopefully get to take a few spins at the new location this weekend
In '99 VF dismantled their Schwarzkopf Mouse (formerly CP's), sold it to some tiny park out east and built an Arrow Mouse in its place.
Mind you, this was a Schwarzkopf here. Nasty dips, tight helixes, that hard-slamming stop at ride's end...classic stuff that packs a punch.
I took one look at its replacement and said, "You gotta be KIDDING me." Then I climbed aboard and things were even worse. They were scuffing away with the brakes that season and there's a block every 50 feet or so to boot. Bad decision?
In terms of what they were looking for, no. They wanted a 'tweener' coaster the whole family could board. For addressing the niche they wanted to fill, it was absolutely perfect.
PKI doesn't have to please everyone any more than Burger King (yeah, back to that) isn't obligated to sell Goat Meat Kabobs. Sure, a few people might want one...but most people come for gristly cow. The angry folks have to realize they're the sign-wielding PETA people--standing between the masses and their big, juicy Italian burger.
-'Playa
*** Edited 3/17/2005 8:28:42 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
Shaggy said:
Gator, I think I know you better and hope you didn't walk away from that week focused on one very minor change. There were countless wonderful things that happened.
Shaggy, didn't mean to imply that they were taken down in a mean-spirited attempt to thwart ERT, and now that I re-read what I typed, I shoulda phrased it better....what I *was* trying to point out is how important flyers are to enthusiasts, even moreso than coasters sometimes...I never would have known that the flyers HAD been added to the Con line-up except for an e-mail I got from PKD stating so...
Among the COUNTLESS wonderful things from that Con, I finally got to ride WITH Shaggy and Jeff Siebert for Jeff's inaugural lap on Nessie, an experience I will cherish for a LONG time
edit: It should be noted that I'm not afraid to look ridiculous, in fact I *cherish* it...
How about posting a picture for your profile then? (or you worried about stalkers?)
Perhaps I am an insignificant portion of the park-going crowd, that still doesn't keep me from being bummed about some of the decisions that parks make. I'm a lot less likely to go to PGA now that Imax, the Train, Triple Wheel, and Whizzer are all gone. Granted rides like the Triple Wheel had really short lines and huge maintenance budgets, but the trains were filled on weekends and so was the Imax theater.
All I can say is "Oh well", good thing I could always take a hop over the hill to Santa Cruz. ;)
Do you really think that's the way it goes? Wow, you'd learn a lot by being me for a day. While PKI has been a willing participant, you have no idea the amount of hoops I have to jump through to get an event scheduled. There's a damn good reason we're not doing anything at SFGAm this year, and it has nothing to do with the ACE Con being there.
Charles Nungester said:
Uh, You of all people should know you purchase ERT.
Every gig I've set up worked out because we bought catering services. That's what we pay for, same as any other client. The ERT is always something offered, never asked for. I've done the math, and in terms of people-hours, anything the park made on the catering, they lost on having to pay people to run the rides. That doesn't even touch utilities.
I'm grateful for the amount of attention PKI offers us, and all enthusiasts, because frankly I don't see any incentive for them to do so. That's precisely the reason I'll go to bat for the park when someone does something stupid.
(And I should add the media-whoring was not about the little girl, but rather a frequent "contributor" to this site. There's a lot more to that story than you know about.)
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Apple Turnover/Sky Pilot/King Cobra/Galaxy/Lost River (name?)Time Warp-King's Dominion
Conestoga/Cyclops-Hersheypark
Jumping Jack Flash/Frisbee/Great Adventure
Sure it can be disappointing, but LIFE GOES ON. I still have a blast at the above metioned parks. Change may not always suit you, but sometimes you get better things in return for the removed items. A good example of this was the replacement of Cyclops (Enterprise) with a Chance/Morgan Revolution at HP.
Speaking of, I recently watched a program on the history of Hersheypark called "Sweet Memories". One wood coaster was torn down and replaced with another wood coaster. That would've caused a panic among enthusiasts if it were today. They enclosed the park which didn't sit well with the residents, tore down the ballroom, and removed the huge pool, but throughout the program, the people interviewed about its early past had smiles on their faces. I honestly believe that you'll feel the same way someday.
Now onto the DDR comments. DDR has very little to do with dancing, except for being able to follow a tempo. I have yet to go to a club where people are stomping up and down in a square like they're doing aerobics. I'm not sure I understand the humilation comments from people either. Anything you do of a physical kind is going to be awkward at first.
I joined a gym back in February. I had to figure out a lot of the circut training equipment on my own. Even with directions, when you're starting out, you're not sure if you're doing things correctly. But, if I watched other people using the same machines with more experience than me, I learned things, and now it's easy to use the machines and also make adjustments.
It's the same with DDR. Try it out, and then watch more experienced players play the game. You'll probably pick up something that will aid you the next time you play. Read tips from various DDR websites. If you don't try it, then you'll never get it. *** Edited 3/18/2005 5:50:28 AM UTC by Intamin Fan*** *** Edited 3/18/2005 5:58:33 AM UTC by Intamin Fan*** *** Edited 3/18/2005 6:13:40 AM UTC by Intamin Fan***
As time goes on parks grow. Sometimes, they grow in a different direction as the people who cherish them. That's life.
I don't think the majority of the people who have expressed their dislike with the park's decision to remove the Flyers are sitting at their computers with steam coming out of their ears like some people make them out to be. I also don't think anyone is going to stop going to PKI just because they removed the Flyers. For some people, though, this just may be the straw that broke the camel's back.
PKI is growing, and some people wish it was growing differently.
- Jeff
It's not about badmouthing them as the ultimate scum of the earth and being ungrateful for the things they "give you." It's constructive criticism; it's the way the world works. Are we all supposed to sit back and just accept whatever happens and never give our opinions? Should we never write to our congressmen and tell them what we think?
I don't expect ERT or any other perks from a park. I'm a paying customer and that is it. If they want to give me something extra I'll take it as long as I don't give up my right to complain or to tell them what I think. That's just stupid. How many times have I read about people crying to customer service because some park is only running one train instead of two? Give me a break.
And spreading the word in places other then pompous enthusiast message boards is not wrong because it seems that amusement parks, their history and role in the social fabric of society is under-appreciated by the general public. People are very attracted to local history and I suspect that a lot people who never had any special enthusiasm for amusement rides would be interested to know that a piece of Cincy's history is longer around. It isn't badmouthing. It's having a conversation with society and Kings Island, like it or not, is part of that society. Being a private business doesn't insulate them or give them any special privileges. If they want to ignore it then that's their decision; good for them. And if they really are as enthusiast friendly as people here claim then shouldn't they *want* to hear what we think? Oh yeah, we're only supposed to tell them through those "polls" "Ride X is A) The greatest thing on earth or B) The second greatest thing on earth.
People protested the demolition of an old building down in Baltimore City that a college wanted to build a new modern looking center on. People wrote letters to the editor, were interviewed on T.V., tried to say you couldn't demolish it because it was a historical landmark, would change the look of the neighborhood etc.
Guess what? I pass the site practically every week and the frame for the new building gets bigger and bigger every week. Sometimes, the minority loses to the bigger interest. Once the building is completed, people will forget the old one (if they haven't already), and it'll be just something that a historian can talk about someday.
It's about the disturbing opinion of many here that it is NOT OK to express an opinion and to let Kings Island or any other park, company or person know that you are not happy with a decision they made.
Expressing an opinion is saying, "I disagree with the removal of a ride I enjoyed," but realizing life will go on.
Whining is bringing up the issue 100 times and making ridiculous statements ("I'll never go back!!!1!").
I mean, what is the point of telling everyone you'll never go back to PKI? Does anyone care? All it is is whining.
*** Edited 3/18/2005 3:02:41 PM UTC by Den***
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