Brawl closes SFMM on Saturday night
Jeffrey R Smith said:Tried to talk about the fights, but the thread has turned into...
1. The "fags" have ruined Disneyland
2. The "Mexicans" have ruined KBF
3. The "blacks" (not sure if this term was used, but we all get the picture) have ruined SFMM!
You know, what really sucks with all those parks is all these Americans in there. I just can't get over it anytime I visit.
:o)
(:
:)
crazy horse said:
I have been to many parks, and 2 of the worst parks I have been to are six flags parks(sfkk, sfa). .Its a shame too, because I do not want to see six flags fold, I want to see them survive so I can continue to visit there parks and be able to ride all of the rides they have to offer.
I can't speak for SFKK, but SFA management is getting better. How do I know? It's my homepark. Employees been running every ride and say the following...
- How is your day?
- Are you ready, enjoy your ride!!!!
- Welcome back riders, how was it?
- Enjoy the rest of your day here at SFA!!!!
- Hey yaw went to play a game?
Plus we are no where near SFKK, one train operation? Get real!!!! One train operation is rare here. Plus the park hired more mechanics. If a ride broken down it will take them at least 10-15 mins till its back open.
Guests they are starting to work on...
- Sir, can you please not stand on the railing.
- Please take to steps back from the air gates, thankyou.
- Please no spitting on this ride, or you will be ejected from the park.
- No smoking in line please.
- Excuse sir, no line jumping. Walk all the way back to the front and do it again. Thankyou.
They are getting better this year and I'm really applauding them!!!! I can agree crazy horse; in the previous year SFA management sucked. But this year they are really working at it. And they have been cleaning everywhere.
Well thats it's back to SFMM!!!! *** Edited 5/26/2005 1:00:39 PM UTC by SF Critic***
There are a few things I don't like about the posts in this thread...
1) "Brawling in parks is 'typical' teenage behavior." Maybe in California (and I doubt that too), but not where I'm from. That's a much a stereotype as all the other stuff that was posted about Disneyland.
2) "SFMM is a location where they might choose to engage in this "typical" behavior, so if any non-brawling-teenager has a problem with it, well it's their problem and they should just stay away." Oh really? Hmmm, wonder is Six Flags is aware of that-- well either way, shame on them for allowing it to happen and ruining the park experience for everyone else-- no matter how much they paid to get in.
3) "Bad behavior happens in other places too, so we should just shrug and overlook it." That it what I think the problem with much of our society is. Instead of striving for the better, we simply compare our own behavior to the lowest common denominator. If we do the same thing, we make the excuse that everybody's doing it-- no big deal. If we are one step above the LCD, we pat ourselves on the back and say at least we're not as bad as that other guy/gal/kid.
Well, guess what-- it's not just horrible behavior that happens in other places. There are people everywhere who are courteous, polite, kind, and generally capable about giving a f*** about someone other than themselves. Why don't people imitate that kind of behavior more often? Oh right, it takes work and requires people to accept the fact that they aren't the center of the universe.
OK, stepping off the soapbox now. Back to your regular scheduled brawling.
"Bad behavior happens in other places too, so we should just shrug and overlook it." That it what I think the problem with much of our society is. Instead of striving for the better, we simply compare our own behavior to the lowest common denominator. If we do the same thing, we make the excuse that everybody's doing it-- no big deal. If we are one step above the LCD, we pat ourselves on the back and say at least we're not as bad as that other guy/gal/kid.
Yes! Yes yes yes yes yes! :)
Sorry. Just glad to know there's someone else who sees this.
The accepted mediocrity thing kills me.
"Sure, I'm an asshole, but I'm not as big an asshole as that guy" should be our new national motto.
1.) I wouldn't say it is 'typical' for those things to happen, but I also don't think it is right to blame the park for its guests fighting. All they can do is try to extinguish the problem as fast as they can, and they did.
2.) Yes, I still say that other teenagers should stay away if they feel unsafe. I'm probably not going to change my mind on that one. Just as a ride breakdown or the weather is out of the controll of the park, a brawl that closes the park (Much rarer than the other two) cannot always be helped.
3.) I probably have been a little over-exposed to fights and the such, but I don't think it is something that you can blame the park for. My high school had 4 police officers that worked at the school full time, and we still had problems with fights a lot. Jessie Jackson even came to our school my freshman year to fight an expulsion of 6 black students who were in a fight at a football game (It made national news stations). The point is that there are some areas in which violence is prevelent (LA being one of them), and you can't blame a specific place for an argument among teens turning into a fight. What they could be blamed for is not taking care of the fight in the correct way. I don't think they did that. (Double negative?)
I know we have all thrown out possible solutions, but none of them have been put into effect. Untill then, we will just have to decided if the risk of a brawl (1-a number much greater than one) is worth the reward.
It seems that these fights may be the result of SFMM's new season pass price of 29.95 (or whatever a single day ticket costs there.) Combine easy access with a lack of parental supervision and problems will arise.
Not all teenagers are responsible, in fact it is the severe minority. But get used to it. This will happen all through your life where a very small minority will "speak" for a group because they get the press. (and we all know how the press loves to blow things out of proportion.)
I wouldn't be suprised if MM rescinds the cheap-o season pass idea soon.
-John
-'Playa
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
Click Click, film film, blah blah, seeya!
The real issue wasn't what went on at the school...it was just another soapbox to stand on while yipping about his own long-standing agenda.
People do that all the time.
Lemme give you an example like--gee, I dunno--this thread?
-'Playa
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I'm not feeling sorry for SFMM though. They brought this upon themselves by allowing their park to fall into a state of decline in terms of operations over the last 10 years. For whatever reason, they made the decision to run the park like this. They get the clientele and press coverage they deserve and they have invited.
I would not envy ANYBODY who would take on a position of implementing change within this park’s policies. I hate to be so negative, but I truly see no way they can right this ship short of moving the park or selling it.
Come on... root word is ridicule. It's not that hard.
a_hoffman50 said:
...rediculous...
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Meanwhile in the news thread from nickpa610...
Back when I worked at dorney park 98-2000 there was usaually some kind of fight everyday of the week,
...and of course, you've seen my link to last summer's VF fight already.
It's not where the park's located or the people he doesn't like. It happens. It happens everywhere whether the park is a CF park or a SF park. It's not a race problem. It's not a gang problem. It's a people problem. Figure it out already.
-'Playa
*** Edited 5/26/2005 9:18:55 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
That's exactly what I was talking about. If we just say "It happens," and think that nothing can be done about it, well the only thing that will happen is things get worse.
I don't care if the people fighting are white, brown, yellow, black, green, purple, or striped. It shouldn't be tolerated. I don't care if it's an SF park, a CF park, an XYZ park, it shouldn't be tolerated.
I haven't noticed anything in either the original article or 100-some posts about "which kind" of people are involved in the brawling @ SFMM. So it's rather presumptuous to assume that people are trying to eliminate an entire ethnic group from this or any park. Like I said above, I'm not fond of any people who have to cause trouble in a park to the point that riot police are called in and the park is closed early-- whatever their background. Stupidity comes in all colors and classes.
I've got no problem with people. I've got problem with crappy parks that allow fights to continue and pose an unsafe environment.
In other words…It is not a PEOPLE problem, it is a PARK problem.
You can play the race card all you want, as it does not dissuade me. Some people love to hide behind race and use race as their safety crutch when they can’t reasonably compete in an arena of ides/opinions. Is this you…? Or am I reading you wrong? I prefer to keep my posts on subject, which is SFMM and their policies in this specific thread. However, it sometimes becomes difficult to do so when so many prefer to make baseless personal accusations and innuendo about those they disagree with.
I go to amusement parks to enjoy myself and have a good time. I don’t go to get an accurate reflection of societies sociological quirks. In my opinion, an amusement park that continuously allows fights to interrupt the experience of their guests is not worth going to. I could give two craps where the park is located. You will never convince me that it is acceptable to allow this behavior at a park that operates under the guise of family entertainment. You may argue than my expectations are unreasonable...and to that...I can only say that we would have to agree to disagree.
If you are can't understand why it might be difficult for SFMM to now change policies to reduce fighting AFTER years allowing such behaviors, then I cannot reasonably discuss it with you. I may even grant every one of your takes about the state of society and how this relates to teenager behaviors for arguments sake. This still does not change the fact that I believe that an amusement park needs to provide a clean and safe environment for the guests as a bare minimum part of their overall package. Without a clean and safe environment, no amount of coasters and thrill rides will ever change MY OPINION. You have every right to grant SFMM or any park/mall/etc the benefit of the doubt due to societies woes (teenage fights, etc). I choose to hold these establishments directly responsible for allowing behaviors to take place on their premises. If this were the first time, I would never have posted. It is the fact that this is another fight in the long history of SFMM fights that leads me to the opinion I hold today.
In my opinion, they have mismanaged this park so badly AND for so long, that they could not reasonably now implement new policies to change the environment as the clientele would “riot” and the likes of the aforementioned Jessie would find their breeding ground. Their guests have become so accustomed to the loose supervision/security that has been prevalent in years past, that they will not take kindly to overnight toughening of the policies. It is for THIS REASON that I make the statement that “moving” or “selling” the park seems to be the only viable options. What they (SFMM) really need is a fresh start and a clean slate. They will never get it given their history and continuing problems to date.
Again, these are my opinions. I enjoy good back-and-forth banter and appreciate opposing viewpoints. However, I laugh at the weak-witted who resort to name-calling and race labeling as a valid attempt at argument. If this was not your intention, then please accept my apology. It is quite difficult to ascertain intention/humor/etc in the written form. If are indeed attempting to race-bait in order to censor my, or anybody’s opinions, then please feel free to kiss my… :-)
You do have a good point about cigarettes. Maybe they could put a huge warning sign on the front of the park explaining past problems and risks associated with getting tangled up in the latest fight. Do we think they would keep this sign updated and informative like the ride closure list?
I would argue that Knott’s is in a much “shadier” area, but once you get inside the gates, these two parks have a totally different atmosphere in terms of “anger” and “rage” level of the guests.
Nor were these.
People like Jessie make it impossible for Six Flags to act. Would you rather take the heat in the press for a few fights per year, or would you rather have Jessie and the like protesting racist policies should you make changes to stop the fights?
So who's playing a 'race' card here? Does the color of my skin make what I say a race card play? Is that it?
The point I made--and will make once again--is that you're no better than Jesse or any other camera-seeking windbag, regardless of race or creed. If confronted with the evidence that other parks have similar problems...you ignore it. Cuz the central issue isn't really important. It's merely a soapbox to stand on while preaching a notion you were already nursing--everything about SFMM must be done away with.
He does it. Other folks do it. You're doing it right now.
What's the difference?
-'Playa
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
I’ve no time to address your race baiting other than to say that it is time to get a new MO. It is just so tiresome and frustrating. We’ve got guys calling people “fags” we’ve got guys calling people “white trash” and we’ve got guys like you who, for whatever reason, have chosen to race-bait me for pointing out the silliness of it all through sarcastic posting. Funny how we didn’t see a “Play---a” anywhere to defend the rights of the poor “white trash” that were so easily dissed in the Dollywood threads. I mean, who has time to defend “those people” when you are so burdened trying to defend that which is important to you. In fairness, maybe you are the champion of all race relations and just happened to miss the “white” bashing. Those who pretend to be so colorblind are usually the first to find any way they can to bring race and color into the discussion. It is all the same to me. Some of you are true haters and others are over-sensitive word police that are no better than the haters themselves. I’ve no time to parse your threads to figure which you are. I won’t stoop to your level and quote words out-of-context to make that which is not appear to be.
We will agree to disagree. Nothing I have said appears to have any ability to crack your thick skull. I’ve granted your points when appropriate. You are not man enough to do the same. You can believe that is acceptable for amusement parks to shun responsibility for fight within their premises based upon society’s woes as the perfect excuse. I am not so forgiving. I place the blame squarely on Six Flags in this case for allowing these conditions to exist for such a prolonged period of time. If you know of other parks that have the same problems and have done the same thing (nothing) to prevent reoccurrences, then be assured that a guy like me will have a consistent take on the situation.
So who's playing a 'race' card here? Does the color of my skin make what I say a race card play? Is that it?
No a race baiter is somebody who sees a statement like this:“People like Jessie make it impossible for Six Flags to act.”And then proceed to discuss/opine that the color of Jessie’s (it is Jessie not Jesse) skin is the issue rather than Jessie’s actions. A race baiter is a person that will not allow any criticism of a person’s action if the said person happens to be the race baiter’s chosen color of protection (protected class). A race baiter would see a word like “shadier” and then infer that the word “shadier” is indeed a derogatory statement about skin color rather than a description of an area that is infested with drug dealings and prostitution for example. A race baiter will actively ignore behaviors that may lead a reasonable person to denounce such behaviors and instead insinuate that skin color is the real reason for any such denouncement. A race baiter is incapable of seeing anything without bringing skin color into the equation. A race baiter almost always grants complete immunity to certain people (protected class) for no other reason than the color of skin.
Your actions certainly look like a race baiter to me. But maybe the act of writing hides the true you. I always give a benefit of the doubt.
However, your complete inability to grant one issue or discussion I have made as valid, speaks volume about your true intentions. You keep bringing the discussion back to race rather than discuss SFMM’s role in the continued violence on their premises. If I did not know better, I would think that you secretly enjoy and endorse fighting at amusement parks as a good thing. Is this true, or do I read you wrong? As far as I can tell, the best I can say about your take is that you believe fights happen everywhere so everybody should accept this as reasonable and if you dare denounce fighting as wrong, then you are an idiot (racist)...!?
I guess I just can't follow your logic. Exactly what have I said about SFMM operations that offends you? You seem to pick and parse words and come back with half-hearted reponses that border on the race baiting strategy discussed above.
I’ve never asked the color of your skin, nor do I care. However, it seems you are begging people to know yours. Why is your skin color so important too you (and others) in an amusement park thread? Go back and read the thread in order. See who first came out and mocked the use of skin colors in this thread. I'm honestly confused about what you are talking about and where you are coming from...
*** Edited 5/27/2005 1:32:10 AM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***
I was unaware of the color of the teens involved in this instance. If anything I'm discriminating against age, due to my distaste of children. Were they black? Were they white? Asian? Mexican? When I was at Magic Mountain, I saw predominantly white people, so I can't comment.
I agree, it is a park problem, for letting this go on. Prevention is the best method of not having this kind of thing pop up. There may be security at SFMM, I'm sure there is. But I didn't see any when I was there. I didn't feel unsafe, there, however.
But I think the last paragraph sums it all up. Good job.
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