B&M must think this is funny.
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.:| Brandon Rodriguez |:.
http://www.coasters2k.com
Nice, Brandon... you want a world of hate coming at you, don't you?
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"We used to hate people, now we just make fun of them. It's more effective that way." - KMFDM, "Dogma"
BrandonR said:
I guess you can't really mess too many things up when you make forceless rides.-----------------
.:| Brandon Rodriguez |:.
http://www.coasters2k.com
Dude, you live right near a park that has a Batman: The Ride. Forceless?
mikerose2 said:
No coaster company is really innovate. LIM's have been used on high speed trains (bullet trains) for years. Intamin just took it and added it to a coaster. B&M took a ski lift seat, stuck it on the track and bam created the inverted coaster. Vekoma just created the boomrang which is just like the old Alton creations, just with a little more to offer. Arrow just improved a very old ideal the loop. So can we please end this debate, its old just like the CP vs SFMM debate.
I agree with you all the way on your statement, no company is truely "innovative" the only innovative idea that a company has made is Arrow with X, having the rotating seats. Everything else was just added on to a coaster as a new feature or a new way to make something thrilling, thats all and the engineers all around are great thinkers for coming up and using these features on coasters and making the thrill more fun for us, even if it does take a year to open or always valleys. And this does sound exactly like a CP vs SFMM debate. It sounds more like you people are debating on which company is best once again.
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Six Flags Darien Lake Ultimate Guide
All you need to know about SFDL and more.
Coming Summer 2002
*** This post was edited by beastnum1 on 6/28/2002. ***
dude what a useless topic
IOA RULES, the only problem coasters your mentioning here are (read carefull) NEW COASTER DESIGNS, and in new designs problems occur.
You're bashing other disigners and boulders that invented some of the most incredable coasters in the world, so far B&M is stil building the same old things, while other companies are making new things, and to be honest, i'd rather have a tilt coaster or a itamin launched than a B&M.
Intamin and Xcelerator = fixing the ride and doing some tweaking, no more problems will occur
Arrow = sixflags mistake, they put pressure on Arrow to finish X quickly so they can get the record, Arrow is not done testing, problems occur, Arrow gets blamed, Arrow and SixFlags fight about who's fault it is, SixFlags gives them another change, Arrow fixes X, six flags is cooling down, arrow will be back
Vekoma, prototype's cam get problems, sixflags put pressure on vekoma, vekoma opens ride while they are not completely happy with it, GIB breakes down and vekoma gets blamed, sixflags asks for a new GIB for WBMW Madrid and gives vekoma all the time that they need to make the GIB perfect, the succeeded, Stunt Fall in WBMW Madrid is testing, no problems, vekoma will put all the adjustments they made for StuntFall on ALL the GIB's that they've build.
S&S, erhm PROTOTYPE, dodonpa is running perfectly btw.
B&M made some coasters and keeps building the same types, we'll see how good B&M their prototypes work in the future (if they think of something new)
Madhollander said:
You're bashing other disigners and boulders that invented some of the most incredable coasters in the world, so far B&M is stil building the same old things,
Bashing boulders?!?! I didn't realize that IOARules was a criminal...j/k
As far as B&M still building the same old thing....*sigh, rolls eyes, shakes head*
Happy Coastering!
Sean
--who still can't understand why a floorless, invert, dive machine, and flyer aren't considered innovative--
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"Have fun stormin' the castle!"
*slaps himself
sorry i knw i forgot some things
but the flyer was Vekoma's idea
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end of post...
MOVE ON !
Just this year B&M perfected the flying coaster - *before* Vekoma perfected their coaster (and that's two years after the first was built). And of course, B&M's coaster opens on time and runs relatively flawlessly. All new coasters break down after just opening, but they don't all have major problems - not if they're a B&M ride.
Perhaps B&M's greatest innovation hasn't even been mentioned, and that's the way they design their rides. By designing their coasters around the heart line, B&M was able to create smooth coasters for the first time. Their layouts were incredibly unique when they first came out (instead of Arrow's cookie cutterness). The banking left before a right-hand flatspin, for example, was something never done or seen before and feels awesome. B&M's ride so much different than any other looper.
Then there's the invention of the zero-g roll, the diving loop, the immelman, the pretzal loop, etc. That's the innovation I'd rather see than some new gimmick.
The argument that B&M isn't innovative because "they don't change the track styles" is the stupidest, most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Why does a company need to change its track to be innovative? If it isn't broke, don't fix it.
-Nate
basicly b&m have perfected everything that doesnt work right..............eg
flyers
sitdowns
standups
inverts(suspended)
hyper
they successfully put an inverter train on a sitdown for the floorless.......
they will no doubt get into the launched business soon but its not what they like and thats it.........they might comeout with a successor to X sooner or later and arrow will go once again.............lets face it B&M ARE HAPPY THE WAY THEY ARE
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X-Flight gives you wwwwwwwwwwwwwiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggsssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#1 Steel-Nitro
#1 Wood-Shivering Timbers
Okay, Rockrc480 stated his opinion, well that MUST be the end of the debate.
Shut the topic down - it's over.
(now THAT'S sarcasm!)
I will finish this off then. Firstly someone mentioned that B&M perfect all of their rides first time. This is not the case as Air has had many problems wit its control system and is not doing so well. Oblivion also opened with a major problem in the blocking (or something like that) that took a while to sort out. To be fair they have not had a spectular failure but ride do not run perfectly from day one - and I would not expect them to.
Many people talk about B&M coming with the flying coaster or Vekoma coming up with the flying coaster. Well there was one built over a decade ago in Manchester, it may have had a single rail but riders lay down. The two previously mentioned companies came up with there own versions of these rides with have turned out radically different.
I would also debate Vekoma's flying being the poorer. If the B&M one breaks riders get stuck on there chests for a long time, this is certainly not confortable and is not a problem on the Vekoma version. B&M however have many other avantages so neither is really a better way of building them.
Next one is the forceless argument. I have to say I don't find B&M's forceless, there are many rides with a lot more forces on them but it doesn't stop B&M rides from have forces. Nemesis is certainly one of the most g-intensive rides I have ever experienced but on the other hand Kraken has far less than evxpected (no that it makes it a lesser ride).
My final thought is on the innovation aspect. I would say inverteds were a fairly inventive type but even if they haven't being that inventive in terms of coaster types they have been in terms of the "behind the scenes" stuff.
Air for example uses a wireless LAN so that the train communicates with the ride computer while it goes round. Duelling Dragons calculates the weight of the trains by measuring lift hill speed and power supplied to chain so that the trains can be set off so they get maximum duel. Oblivion has a block system that can fit 7 trains onto what must be one of the shortest coaster tracks. They may not have the most innovation in new coaster styles there is more to building a ride than just that.
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John Wilkes said:
I will finish this off then. Firstly someone mentioned that B&M perfect all of their rides first time. This is not the case as Air has had many problems wit its control system and is not doing so well. Oblivion also opened with a major problem in the blocking (or something like that) that took a while to sort out.Almost every new coaster I can think of has problems like these - there are always some bugs that need to be worked out. I don't think I've ever heard of a B&M ride opening and then closing for an extended period of time because of a problem, however.
Many people talk about B&M coming with the flying coaster or Vekoma coming up with the flying coaster. Well there was one built over a decade ago in Manchester, it may have had a single rail but riders lay down.
I doubt that the flying coaster idea came from that ride. It's not hard to imagine a coaster in which you ride in "flying" position; I had the idea myself many years ago. But I also don't think either Vekoma or B&M ripped the idea off eachother.
I would also debate Vekoma's flying being the poorer. If the B&M one breaks riders get stuck on there chests for a long time, this is certainly not confortable and is not a problem on the Vekoma version.
I'm sure B&M thought of this and there are systems in place to prevent this. Then again, Vekoma really didn't with their GIBs.
-Nate
*** This post was edited by coasterdude318 on 6/28/2002. ***
I would also debate Vekoma's flying being the poorer. If the B&M one breaks riders get stuck on there chests for a long time, this is certainly not confortable and is not a problem on the Vekoma version. B&M however have many other avantages so neither is really a better way of building them
That is a legitament debate, but I'd have to disagree. I've been stopped on SUF's break run when the ride went down for 15 minutes. I had the same thing occur on Stealth also. IMO SUF's was much better. Hanging freely on your stomach is actually very comfortable. Where as on Stealth the restraint just kept getting tighter and tighter as the hot summer sun beat in our face.
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"This time I think ... I think it's ... it's going to work!" - Dr.Bruce Banner
ya know, a roller coaster is quite a complex design...and some of the new creations we are seeing nowadays are just pretty far out from what was available less then a decade ago. its not going to be perfect.....it WILL work eventually. i remember seeing all kinds of hate posts about Deja Vu...i finally got the chance to ride it at SFOG a few weeks ago...didnt have to wait too long, and i can honestly say that out of the 63 coasters on my TR, that is the most frightening one on the list:) incredibly exciting, and in my opinion was worth the 90 minute wait for it. and in no way bashing B&M, on the same visit i had the pleasure of experiencing S:UF.....and was dissapointed. im sure ill be flamed for this, but so far i prefer the Vekoma flyer (Batwing at SFA) to S:UF. i mean it was a fun coaster, just not the dream machine that i was led to believe it was. no need to go into why i feel this way, since thats not what this thread is about....the point is to each his own.
IOARules brings up many good points, but its obvious hes a B&M fan....plain and simple. same would go for anyone else who particularly likes one companies coaster. i am certain that Mr Bolliger and Mr Mabillard are not sitting in "mansions" (haha:)) and laughing at the other companies. my guess is that like every other coaster mfg firm, they are in their offices working with engineers to design what they and MANY other coaster companies in this world do best....and thats provide a one to three minute adrenaline rush for millions of park goers worldwide. lets stop saying one company is better than the other....after all if memory serves me right, thats a TOS violation....just appreciate a coaster for what it is....and what it has the potential to be:)
Tim....sorry if i sound like a motivational speaker...sometimes i get carried away...it comes from working with a church youth group id imagine, haha:)
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hey...thats my story..and im stickin by it!!! :)
PKD 2003...drop rides will never be the same...Intamin rocks!! :)
I have an idea, lets start bashing CCI about not being innovative!!! I mean what a bunch of losers, building wooden coasters (sarcasm). how dare them stick to their old school ways and build what works and what everyone likes.
B&M has done a hell of alot more than CCI and still everyone likes to attack B&M for not being INNOVATIVE??!!?? CCI hasnt even started using steel track, and i doubt the ever will, just because they find that they specialize in building good wooden coasters, not steel coasters. I am not in any way bashing CCI, I am just saying that everyone sings praises for CCI but when it comes to B&M they say "id rather have this or that cause B&M is not innovative enough". that is Bull****. why cant we just have fun and not debate about which is better because when it all comes down, might i remind you, we ride coasters for fun.
I think B&M is working on an AWESOME new design, and they are just taking their time so they can perfect it, just like all of their other coasters. They are learning off of the mistakes of rushing a project like Arrow, Intamin and Vekoma were all forced to do.
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Its not THE Shivering Timbers, its just Shivering Timbers. And its pronounced Michigan's Adventure.
LOL! I knew that was coming. It's really a mockery if anything... Of course B&M rides don't have the same problems as other new/innovative rides, especially when you make the SAME roller coasters year after year.
Must we remember that B&M's prototype AIR had problems? So what's the point? Every company has problems now and then. I'm not saying that B&M's are bad, I truly do enjoy them even though many of them are forceless. I find a relaxing roller coaster ride still fun.
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.:| Brandon Rodriguez |:.
http://www.coasters2k.com
*** This post was edited by BrandonR on 6/29/2002. ***
LOL, brandon r! :) hilarious....
although in my last post i should have mentioned something....Apollos Chariot at BGW is tied on my list with SROS at SFA for my #1 steel....i have to be honest, ive discovered that AC is chock full of force!! ride the back seat....not only do you get the cushy float airtime, but you get a few good pops of ejector air:) so B&M isnt entirely forceless...and Nitro has some pretty sweet moves as well:)
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hey...thats my story..and im stickin by it!!! :)
PKD 2003...drop rides will never be the same...Intamin rocks!! :)
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