B&M: NEW LAYOUT??

Exactly.

The *only* similarities between Vortex and Iron wolf is the fact that they both have two inversions (vertical loop and a corkscrew), they both have a curving drop, and there's a helix threading the loop on both. Would you argue that B:TR and Montu are similar because they both have two vertical loops, a zero-g roll, and a curving drop? Probably not.

The differences between Vortex and Iron Wolf are not just some slight differences in degees and angles. They both begin with a left-hand drop, but Vortex has a left-hand turnaround and Wolf has a right-hand turnaround, followed by a steep drop Vortex does not have. There's also the "fake midcourse" on Iron Wolf that isn't present on Vortex (in fact, that helix through the loop is entirely different on both rides). Heck, even if the first halves were identical (which they're not at all!) I would *still* argue with you because Iron Wolf has an entire second half that Vortex does not!

There's a huge difference between calling Viper and Shockwave "similar" and Wolf and Vortex "similar." I don't think anyone looks at that and says "That's just like Medusa East."

-Nate

Back to my point when I posted this- don't get me wrong, I like the whole B&M standard layout. Kumba is an awesome ride, and B&M makes some of the best coasters in the industry. I just think that getting all excited over a park's new B&M-when it is exactly the same as a previously built coaster-is rather pointless. Granted, it is another fine creation by one of the best in the industry, it is still the same. Okay, so maybe Scream varies from Medusa because of a different helix or where the helix comes in the ride-it is still the same ride experience. I am not talking about totally new inversions (although, that would be great considering that inversions are becoming overrated IMO) just a different layout in how they occur. I will use the Hulk again as an example: Same inversions, yet in a totally different layout. The zero-g roll is used first, right at the highest point of the ride right after the launch (an awesome part IMO) then, a sweeping drop into a cobra roll (the best cobra roll I have experienced). The large vertical loop is the third element, into a 360 degree helix around the launch. Then, a flatspin into a drop and nice vertical loop. A turn up and into the brake run that cuts through the loop, then a dive down into a flat spin, a couple more turns, and into the brake run. Same elements, just a different order that gives the ride more *ambience*

also, OT why doesn't B&M use more Sea Serpent rolls, just to vary it up?

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I am one.
I am Turbo.

hey woody, u said raptor doesnt have a clone........it does http://www.rcdb.com/installationresult.htm?column=1,10,3,4,5&order=1,2&production=121&contact=1 see for yourself.

Turbo sez:

"I just think that getting all excited over a park's new B&M-when it is exactly the same as a previously built coaster-is rather pointless."

Really? As a coaster enthusiast I think its entirely appropriate and not at all pointless to be excited about *any* new coaster being built.

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Happy Birthday DawnMarie!!

lol,yea i agree.doesnt that destroy the purpose of like roller coasters?

Well Moosh, I do have to disagree here. While any coaster is better than no coaster at all, I would NOT get excited over a new Boomerang coming to my homepark. Sad thing is, I'd ride a Boomerang now if I had the opportunity. We bash these rough and boring rides for all its worth, but any one of us (with the exception of those without an offseason) would probably take one right about now. While I'm not suffering withdrawal, I'll admit it would be nice to ride a coaster... ;)

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Track Record: 164
Favorite Wood: Phoenix at Knoebels
Favorite Steel: Millennium Force at Cedar Point

MarimbaGuy - your post is a perfect example of "your mileage may vary."

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Happy Birthday DawnMarie!!

Confused, but thats ok. What do you mean by that?

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Track Record: 164
Favorite Wood: Phoenix at Knoebels
Favorite Steel: Millennium Force at Cedar Point

You said you were disagreeing with me, did you not?

"Well Moosh, I do have to disagree here."

I took that to mean you have a different opinion, hence I used the phase "your mileage may vary." Sorry if I was confused...it happens a lot in old age ;)

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Happy Birthday DawnMarie!!

God I brought this up on another site and was crucified for even thinking it

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It isn't so bad. . .
Once you're used to it

Crucified...and still lived to tell about it....*bows head solemnly*....;)

Let me clear up something that Mamoosh brought up. Yeah, it is cool that SFMM is getting a floorless, and yeah, as enthusiasts we should be excited about any and all coasters opening, yet I honestly am not (no pun intended) floored or totally moved by the introduction of Scream. I am excited about many rides opening this season-Ozark Wildcat, Top Thrill Dragster, Superman: Ultimate Escape (even though near clones-too few in the U.S. to be considered "common"). It is cool that California is getting a floorless coaster, allowing more people to have easy access to the "floorless" experience (which IMO doesn't do much). I am just saying that I, who lives in Florida, am not going to get all excited about a "clone" or "near clone". people have talked about traveling to California for this ride, when it is the same as others. if they haven't before ridden a floorless and are near the area, I understand it. But to me, I will be traveling to California for all of the SFMM rides (mostly X, which I still haven't ridden, and the other state of the art SFMM rides, considering I haven't been there since 1994 when I was 9). I will still ride Scream, albeit the line is not an absurd wait. I'm a straight up coaster enthusiast, I'll tell anyone that, but I just don't see all the hoopla surrounding this coaster.
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I am one.
I am Turbo.

Okay listen, got 1 question.... is it true that CP offered B&M the job of MF and they said NO

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Big D from the A to the N drop da O

I guess some people need to be reminded that SFMM is still a *regional* park. It's not a destination park ala CP or Disneyland.

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People complain about clones, yet can't even come up with original conversation, which is ten times worse.

CP shopped bids out for Millie. B and M gave an inordiantely high price tag since they really did not want the job.

CCI did the same thing for Son of Beast.

This is how I have always understood things at least.

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Da Poodle

Coming in 2003-The Spawn Of Magnum!

See, Turbo (where's Ozone?), I think that is a little odd. I would think that a person like youself would be really *happy* that SFMM got Scream. As you said, people who are local to the area (the VAST majority of SFMM guests) will be attracted to the ride. And since B&M loopers are *known* people eaters, all that can do is remove people from the lines of rides like X and Deja Vu. Thus making *your* waits shorter and *your* day more complete.

But then again, I'm a little *different* from many enthusiasts. I dont see coaster riding as a "conquest". If a coaster is good, I dont mind riding its so-called "clone". Hell, I even get a kick out of boomerangs (or is it a punch :)). And for me, a really good looking custom layout is *still* not guaranteed to get me packing my bags (elsewise, I'd have *been* gone to Silverwood and the lovely Tremors).

But, as Matthew said, YMMV.

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"I will break away, I'll find myself today"

And to add to what 2Hostyl said I don't expect people to be equally excited about every new coaster. I am definitely more excited about Ozark Wildcat [which I won't ride this year] and Timberhawk [which I will ride] than any other new coasters this year.

I am slightly less excited about Scream [and its potential to pull riders from other coaster at SFMM] and Dragster [even though I'm not excited about it enough to make a special trip to CP] and everything else opening this year.

But any new coaster is a good thing IMHO.

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A park without a hyper coaster is like dancing about architecture.

I like B&Ms but for the most part are predicatble but not all. I would like for them to try and create a new element like something we havent seen before like a frontflip loop.

OK...I'll ask: what is a "frontflip" loop?

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A park without a hyper coaster is like dancing about architecture.

you know how most loops do a backflip where heels go over first well a fronflip loop would go head over first I hope that explained it cuz its hard to explain

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R.I.P. Greg. We will miss you.