Then I guess that I don't understand your criticism of the ride ops then.
You said that your camera was strapped to you and under your arm. Right?
You said that you did not take pictures right?
Then that means you had secured your loose article and not taken pictures while riding. Sounds to me that the ride ops were acting in a responsible manner, because you were.
Guess I don't see the problem.
That more or less exemplifies my point. If more folks adhered to the rules and safety cautions, then they would not have to be singled out or admonished. I don't think it is fair to the guest or the ride op to be caught up in a babysitting routine. But by breaking those rules, it forces the guest and ride ops to get caught up in this cat and mouse game. It does nothing but take away the guests focus of a fun ride and takes away the ride ops focus from what I consider to be more important tasks.
A.K.A. John K.
*** This post was edited by Shaggy on 4/19/2002. ***
scort01: You completely miss the point. It's still threatening, and that's what I take issue with, as I'm sure the park would. If I didn't know all about how nice the PR folks and other people were at the park, I'd see that remark and reconsider ever going there (let alone have CoasterBuzzCon there).
Hostility breeds hostility, and no one wants that when they go to an amusement park. As Natalie said, being a jerk to guests on or off the clock is a very bad idea, and tends to bite you where it hurts the most later on.
Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
Let me follow up to my above post by adding the following.
I firmly believe that an experienced rider should, in a perfect world, be trusted. I was actually peeved one time last season because I was at PKI with my heavy-duty camera walking around taking pictures.
Part of my tradition at PKI is to always ride Phantom Theatre while I am there. This time was no different. My intent was not to take pictures while riding, although I would have loved to for posterity. Rather, I just wanted to ride for tradition's sake.
The operator at the front of the line reminded me that picture taking was not permitted on the ride. I agreed and said I was not planning on taking a photo. He let me board. When boarding my doom buggie, the ride op there again told me that taking pictures was not allowed. I again agreed and reaffirmed that I would not break the rule. While riding, I kept my camera in my hands near my lap as to not set it down in the buggie and forget it. However twice during the trek, the driver stopped the ride and made a spheel about not taking pictures while riding. I wasn't breaking the rule, but felt I was the one causing the ride not to operate and being singled out.
When the ride was over, I was a bit embarassed exiting, but more concerned that they had thought I was knowingly breaking the rules even though I had given my word.
But, fact is, I reminded myself that they would not have had to stress it so much if a problem did not exist in the first place. That is unfair. I could have left my camera in the station, but knew very well that I may have arrived back to find it missing.
As an enthusiast or frequent visitor to PKI, and various other parks, I tend to be watched more. It is because many of my aquaintances have decided to break the rules. But also a result of many operators knowing I ride often and may become lax about my choices to adhere to the ride guidelines.
Bottom line, my point all along is that the rules exist for reasons. But because they are broken or ignored so often, people that are not intending to break them are penalized. It is unfair to everyone involved,the ride ops and the guest.
I've been on both sides of this coin. Every time, the outcome has been the same. It is not worth the risk it poses.
A.K.A. John K.
*** This post was edited by Shaggy on 4/19/2002. ***
Jeff -- I may have missed the bullseye, but I'm still on the board.
Granted, taking pictures while on a ride may not necessarily be grounds for being escorted out of a park. However, misjudgement on the part of one, does not necessarily call for labeling another brain-dead.
As for hostility breeding hostility ... it's true. So, can you blame a ride-op for sticking up for his/her dignity when, in an earlier post, someone seemed to remark that ride ops have nothing better to do than chase down a stray basketball?
Ride ops may be an important part to an amusement park experience, but what they say or do should not make or break whether or not someone goes to the park in question.
*** This post was edited by scort01 on 4/19/2002. ***
& as far as that guy's boss seeing the post, or whatever, good. That boss should also IN PLAIN VIEW see all the links to POV & on-ride photos, all through this site, lol. I guess that isn't an issue to anyone, & I guess that posting such materials & the discussion of rules breakage is OK.
...and isn't that Dan guy more visible than most, from being on TV?
Well, in the past 29 years of visiting Kings Island (havent been this year yet) no ride op has ever told me that I couldnt take my camera on a ride or there was to be no picture taking.
Well, it just comes back to what you said before "I have NEVER seen personal cameras or recorders allowed on a ride at PKI outside of media events." Then if a ride op sees someone in line with a camera wouldnt it be their responsibility to let that guest know that they can not take a camera on the ride with them? Are they misinformed on the rules of cameras? Are cameras considered loose articles?
What is the rule?
*** This post was edited by Memphomaniac on 4/19/2002. ***
That particular day I had strapped on my Pentax K-1000 rig. That's a heavy camera, and I have this homebrew suspension rig for it which attaches to my belt in the back, goes over both shoulders and attaches to the camera. For security, an additional strap hooks to my belt in the front and snaps to an eye bolt on the bottom of the camera when I'm riding. So when I'm riding and not shooting, the camera is VERY secure, attached at three points. But at the same time, it's out in plain sight where any ride-op can see it and know exactly what it is.
Over the course of that day, I was reminded more than once not to do any shooting on board the rides, but NOBODY gave me any hassle for carrying the (secure) camera. I took precautions to make sure it was secure, and the crews apparently recognized that. Memphomaniac, it looks to me like your experience matches mine.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
First of all, this thread proves why CB is one of the better forums out there...no flaming, and great discussion, low noise level.
Secondly, unless i missed it, I haven't seen anyone relate an instance of camera-related injury. In the spring of 2000, my girlfriend and I visited a park in New England and were in the station for a particularly intense coaster. We were waiting for the very back seat and a gentleman in line for the next-to-last car started talking to me. I wasn't into coasters as much then, but I did notice his ACE shirt. We boarded the ride, with the ACE gentleman in front of us. Ascending the lift hill he pulled out a camera and started taking pictures, but he was being sneaky about it. He stopped taking pictures at the top of the lift but didn't stow his camera. We enjoyed the ride until a good pop of ejector airtime and his arms flailed backwards, with the camera dangling at the end of the wrist strap. The camera came whipping around and hit my girlfriend in the face. He then lost his grip on the strap and the camera made a speedy descent to the gravel below. My girlfriend had a bloody lip but was fine otherwise. The first thing they guy did was tell a ride op to get his camera. That ride op ignored him and tended to my girlfriend and escorted us to First-Aid. The ACE gentleman insisted that someone get his camera, and the ride op siad "I'll call someone" He called security and had the man escorted from the park. The park in question apologized up and down, left and right and gave us 4 admission tickets for the park and 4 exit passes for that ride. The park also told us they would reprimand the crew for not paying attention to the security monitors and apoligized several more times.
As a coaster enthusiast, this man had to be aware of the numerous warning signs and verbal announcements prohibiting cameras (there was a specific rule against them) as well as loose articles. He knowingly took a camera on board with the intent of taking pictures, not just on the lift, but throughout the course, otherwise he woudl've stowed the camera at the top of the lift. He knew it was against the rules, otherwise why would he clandestinely take pictures on the lift, why did he conceal it until after the train left the station? He also knew the course and the ride's elements (his ACE shirt regarded an event relating to this coaster) and should've been aware of the ejector air and it's consequences. I would almost call this malicious, but it's more like a flagrant premeditated violation. I'm sure he never intended to hurt my girlfriend, and he woudln't have taken a camera on board if he wasn't sure he could safely carry the camera. In his mind he was doing everything right...had a wrist strap, concealed it from ride ops, etc. but something went wrong. Enthusiasses aren't above the park's rules and regulations.
Here's my stories: My dad and I made a trip to CP shortly after Raptor opened. The lines were huge and extended out of the queue and down the main path parallel to Raptor's first drop towards the fry stand. As I reached the spot where I was almost under the top of the lift I heard and felt something fly right by me, just missing my head and smash into pieces when it hit the ground. It was an auto-focus, single lens 35mm camera. While I doubt it would have killed me it probably would have hurt quite a bit.
Last year I was waiting in line for Supreme Scream. I was standing on my assigned number talking to friends and watching the riders. Someone riding on the tower next to ours dropped their disposible camera from close to the top and it almost hit a ride op.
If stuff like this has happened to me twice I'd be willing to bet it happens more often than we realize.
2002 - the year of IB's LoCoSuMo!!
I would just like to say that the *only* time I have dropped a camera was when it was "secured" in my pocket, where it should have been. If I had been holding it in my hand, I guarantee I would still have it today (well, maybe not, it wasn't that good of a camera).
Take that for what it's worth.
"I have a flashlight, enjoy the show!"
Excalibur Crew for 2002!
Why? I think it's stayed fairly interesting.
I am interested, however, in why nobody has ever talked about this in one of the many "Robb Alvey" topics. I've never seen one of the tapes, but isn't it entirley POV?
*** This post was edited by Jacob on 4/19/2002. ***
It is spring and there are more parks open for business each week. Time to find a place for all your camera/video gear and head-out to the parks. If ya feel a need to do something counter to rules, then ya must be ready for what could happen. If ya are worried for others around you, then you can always take the next train or attempt to change seating. (Or the very least make a note of that person and make sure you are not near them the rest of the day).
I guess for some, a nice personal insurance umbrella policy would work. I wonder how many people are escorted from parks each year due to "equipment infractions"? I also wonder how many parks keep that person's name/picture on file if there was an accident? Just wondering. Beats re-reading through the entire thread again... tehehehehe
I have POV of my own as well, but I always either do it in circumstances where it is not prohibited, or (more frequently) when I can get a park-related person to explicitly say 'yes'. I also tend to take extraordinary precautions.
Rule #1: Insure the safety of other riders.
Rule #2: Insure your own safety
Rule #3: Insure the safety of the gear
Rule #4: Try to get a decent shot in light of Rules 1-3.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Just a comment on what you said.
If your camera flew out of your pocket while riding, then perhaps it wasn't all that secure to begin with. =:^) (end of smart @ss mode)
-Sean (see ya in 24 hours) F.
One more crack like that and you're gonna be walking for Hartsfield airport!
Oh, yeah, um, follow the rules people. Say no to drugs, too.
"I have a flashlight, enjoy the show!"
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