Hydra 8-09-04, Lift hill goes vertical

The supports that are pretty much just like the supports B&M uses for their corkscrews...
http://www.xtremecoasters.com/photo_gallery/displayimage.php?album=37&pos=4

And the turn just before the lift is banked plus the slope up to the hill is stretched enough for higher speed...
http://www.xtremecoasters.com/photo_gallery/displayimage.php?album=37&pos=6

And looking at the track in the background...
http://www.xtremecoasters.com/photo_gallery/displayimage.php?album=37&pos=50

I'm pretty sure there'll be a barrel roll as a prelift inversion.

There isnt enough clearence to do an inversion. You have to take into consideration the track, cars, and peoples' hands being up (well in that case down) in the air. There would have to be atleast 10-15ft clearance between the ground and the track and judging from that support on top of the elevation, its not tall enough. As far as supports, well B&M have showed us that there isnt a "standard" type of support for elements. Just look at the support on the lift and the supports that connect @ a 90 degree angle on the turn.

But its just my speculation..........

And unless the station is altleast 20 ft above the roll it would be one slow and possibly painful inversion. Again........just my speculation. *** Edited 8/22/2004 12:00:37 AM UTC by coasterbruh***

Let me play along with this pre-lift inversion idea. I'm actually beginning to believe it after I just did some detective work. The supports in this picture http://www.xtremecoasters.com/photo_gallery/displayimage.php?album=37&pos=4 line up with a standard corkscrew on a B+M http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery2169.htm?Picture=12 Coasterbruh, there is plenty of room for a corkscrew if you are following the idea I just presented. In the first pic I just posted, the 2 supports would be the entrance and the exit of the corkscrew. The inversion would be in the air, there is enough room there. Also, coasterbruh, you are right about not every support on ever B+M being the same, but if you compare I bet for the most part you would see that the majority of the supports for the same elements are the same. Great Bear is an example where the supports are different, due to the restriction they had to work around. Does anyone follow my idea of the corkscrew? It seems possible. Also, I know that Hercules topped 35 mph during the pre-lift turn. Hydra's station will be approximately in the same place (possibly higher). That is the perfect speed to enter a corkscrew, its not too fast and not painfully slow either. *** Edited 8/22/2004 12:22:02 AM UTC by DorneyDante***

Plus-doesn't a pre-lift inversion just seem kind of lame? It'd be all WOO THE RIDES STARTING, ok, no, now heres the lift.

Lame? I think the idea is brilliant.

My suggestion: Don't be so steadfast to believe that their can't be an inversion just because they've never done it before or because you don't think there is enough "clearance" for one. If it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Joe "besides, when has there *ever* been a rumored pre-lift inversion before? Do you think people just decided to make something up this time for Hydra?" C.

Ok well lets just sit back wait until the track is installed then, ya know, we will all know if the coaster opens another venue in the coaster world.

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If it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, it's probably a duck.

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Stealing the Terrell Owens "if it looks like a rat and smells like a rat" quote I see...

I am not really buying this pre-lift inversion thing, I think it is just going to be a high banked 's' turn. Pre-lift inversion or no pre-lit inversion, it is still looking like a great ride.

Even though a pre-lift inversion would be cool...my thoughts are going towards a pre-lift segment similar to Dominator at Geauga Lake (still calling it Batman Knight Flight sometimes), except at a faster speed, which results in the more angled track and the different supports from Dominator.

Also, I may have probably missed reading this in a previous post or missed a picture but it looks Hydra wont have the most widely used dip after the lift. The top of the lift seems to have a bigger than normal radius than most B&M coasters, thats what brought me to that conclusion. *** Edited 8/22/2004 2:15:19 AM UTC by sros208***

Looks like there are going to be a few interesting inversions next year, huh Joe?;)

-clint, no I don't know anything about Hydra so don't PM me about it, b.

:)

Okay... coasterbruh... are you forgeting that all inversions are heartlined? Which means the riders body would be at the same height inverted as if it was sitting normal.

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coasterbruh said:
Ok well lets just sit back wait until the track is installed

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And for some reason, I believe that the mysterious area near those two supports is going to be the last section installed.

Strangely enough, I was actually thinking the same thing geneticfreak. Dorney's way of teasing us. If it is indeed a pre-lift inversion, I'm almost sure they would install that segment last, just for sh*ts and giggles. Almost as their capping off of the ride as one-of-a-kind. Guessing and waiting also builds the anticipation and excitement of the ride up; its all strategic. They know what they are doing.

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Rctycoon2k said:
Okay... coasterbruh... are you forgeting that all inversions are heartlined? Which means the riders body would be at the same height inverted as if it was sitting normal.

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So does that include vertical loop, batwings, dive loops............

I only thought heartline rolls were the only inversions heartlined, but what do I know. Im not a deisgner, yet.

Woops... I meant all rolls are heartlined.

Wonder if there's gonna be hand slapping of a different variety here?

Ya know... on board riders executing an inline twist slapping hands of folks just exiting the ride going down the exit queue.. oh wait, nevermind, the inversion happens after the queue crosses. ;)

There might be some head slapping with the ground if there was to be an inversion there ;)

What, like this? Nah, you're right, there's clearly not enough room. :)

-Nate
*** Edited 8/22/2004 7:02:34 PM UTC by coasterdude318***

I honestly hope the pre-lift inversion doesn't happen...it just seesm like it would totally kill the pace of the ride.

Ok, here's my theory and someone prove me wrong (seriously) because I really want to see a pre-lift inversion - I just still don't see the same "proof" that everyone else does.

1. The twisted pieces in the photos sitting on the ground don't twist more than 90 degrees per piece (Actually, I'm not even sure that is a full 90 degrees). It would take four of these to do an full 360 inline. I'm not sure there is enough space between the already built turnaround section where the station will likely sit to fit that much (and a drop for the needed speed) - also, are there any B&M's that use 4 track pieces joined together to make an inline twist? I honestly don't know and I'm not currently in the mood to look for pics.

2. Ok, some are also saying "corkscrew style" element. I did look at some of my pics of B&M flat spins and none have pieces of track involved that look anything like the pieces lying at Dorney. If someone knows of one, I would like to see it.

3. The two twisty pieces, placed appropriately on the supports in question and connected with an equally twisty "turn" piece (damn RCT mentality stuck in me :) ) make the highly banked "S" turn that the non-inversion supporters are talking.

4. Why such a goofy station-to-lift section? Consider the area Dorney is working with. The station and lift almost have to run parallel to each other and parallel to that section of midway. Herc did it and this one will too. If you're forced to do a turnaround, a slightly extended one adds length to the ride at minimal cost and keeps it interesting and different. It's also funtional as it moves the track to the right and makes room for the Cobra Roll that will clearly be placed (based on footers) between the air brush shop and the turn that's already built.

I'm still on the side of no inversion (although I do see what you guys are saying). A steep drop out of a decently elevated station (stairs at the end of the queue to reach it, not unlike Talon) into a highly banked right to left "S" turn (pretty much 90 degrees on both turns) into the part that we see built already. Good speed into the lift and still more than 'just a turnaround' that opens up room for a wonderfully placed Cobra Roll.

*** Edited 8/22/2004 11:22:17 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***