"You Won't See Any More Goliaths"
A spinner like Dumbo is for 8-yr-olds? WTF? Have you actually been to any of the Disney parks and seen who is riding rides like that? I'll tell you who is riding: mom, dad, kids, and grandparents.
Stop thinking like an enthusiast.
*** Edited 1/27/2006 3:33:40 AM UTC by Mamoosh***
I'd bet you almost anything that you will see coasters and flatrides built at Six Flags again, but there will be no more Goliath's, X's or Nitros. Rides where mom and dad say "here's $50 bucks, go have at it cause we're not riding that stuff".
Don't forget, teens are part of families as well, but the teen Shapiro is after are the ones that are visiting with the rest of the family, not the ones dropped off for the park to babysit. *** Edited 1/27/2006 4:28:56 AM UTC by DWeaver***
So far, I like what I'm seeing, except the price hikes (I think he could have done some different things) but we'll see if I still like it 5 years from now.
who is riding rides like that?
That would be me.
Two years ago at DL: Dumbo and Astro Orbiter (plus everything in A Bug's Land in DCA)---all more than once. ("Mmmm. Candy!"---Hiemlich.)
Last year at WDW: Dumbo, Triceratops Spin, *and* Aladdin's Magic Carpets. Astro Orbiter was in rehab, otherwise I'd've been on that too.
We ride Woodstock's Express EVERY time we go to CP. I've logged more trips on WE than Magnum at this point. I also have probably a couple of dozen trips on Jr. Gemini under my belt. I'm hoping my son won't drag me on it again this season, but he's only 5, so he might.
Someday, my kids will be old enough that all of Fantasyland sucks. Until then, you'll find me on Dumbo. Again. In fact, I can pretty much iron-clad-guarantee you that at 9:08 on Monday morning, the 27th of February, you'll find me on Dumbo.
I can suffer waiting a few years between major coasters, but in return, this guy MUST keep his promise about improving the cleanliness and customer service of the parks. The way Disney can successfully go so long between major rides is by having one of the best staffs and one of the best atmospheres of any park around. If Six Flags is to follow in Disney's lead, they MUST succeed in the staffing and general park maintenence issues.
The Six Flags park in Austell plans to start daily parades this spring and daily laser shows and fireworks in the summer. Roving costumed characters will increase from one or two a day to 30 every hour, Shapiro said.
GREAT idea. You go to Disney and there are ALWAYS costumed characters roaming the park. You go to a Six Flags park and you may see a few when the gates first open, but after that you are lucky to see one or two more the rest of the day. The right people in the right costumes can really add a special touch to a trip to an amusement park. I'd also love to see the laser show and/or firework shows spread to more parks. With SFA as my home park, I could understand if they can't have a nightly firework show because of the neighbors (noise problems), but a nightly laser show would be a wonderful way to end the day at the park and keep people in the gates longer (not to mention a good oppertunity to sell those glowing novelty items).
The park is adding 150 garbage cans and stationing staff in every restroom. The entire chain has adopted a policy to restrict smoking.
Speaking for SFA, we had stationed staff in the restrooms ALMOST every day back in the 2004 season, and it was VERY nice. I don't know why they cut that in 2005 (at least I never noticed it), but I'd love to see it return chain wide for 2006. The trashcans move is taking a page straight from Cedar Fair. You go to a Cedar Fair park and it seems like you're always within 10 feet of a trashcan. Not a bad idea though. You can keep the number of trash collecting staff you have and reduce trash on the walkways by just adding more trashcans. I would like them to find better ways to put trashcans deep within the queue lines, especially in ways that they can be easily emptied by the staff. Hershey seems to do this quite well, but often the trashcans in the stations at SF parks are overflowing. I'm all for the no smoking part too, as long as it is enforced.
The chief executive is touring every park in the chain, bucking up employees, pointing out things to fix and getting a little press.
That's pretty impressive, but hopefully this isn't a one time thing. Pretty much all of the SF parks are closed for the season, he would be stupid not to visit the parks again a month or so after opening day to see what still needs fixed or what he may have missed in the first pass. Speaking for SFA, does this mean we will always see Batwing running two trains and two stations? Does this mean we will see TSC finally run 12 or more boats consistantly? Does this mean we will see all rides running at full capacity by opening day? I sure hope so! That would GREATLY improve my image of at least this one SF park.
He also said he intends to look for more opportunities to strike exclusive licensing deals, with food companies and others.
Once again, speaking for SFA, we've seen this A LOT already. Beyond all the chain wide sponsers, SFA has several Subway sandwich food stands, a Chik-fil-a stand, a Panda Express (chinese resturant chain), as well as plenty of Coca-Cola marketing (including the poolside cabanas in HH being essentially big Coca-Cola adds, the Fanta Cool Zone, and the Fanta Drink Bar). However, in this case, more is better for me. The pizza at SFA is good, but if it was Pizza Hut or Papa Johns pizza... it would be better. They have the fries by Boardwalk Fries, so that's all good, and the ice cream by Baskin Robins, but sneak in some Toco Bell or KFC and you might actually get me to eat at the park more.
One of his biggest moves, though, is to no longer rely on adding expensive thrill rides to juice up attendance. While the attractions hook teens, the attendance spike usually lasts just a year, Shapiro said. "They never pay for themselves."
That's debatable. Batwing saw a 9% increase in attendance at SFA the season AFTER it was built. Maybe that's because it was down so much it's opening season, but it's still proof that it can increase attendance over more than just a year. However, I'll agree that if given the option to spend $20 on a new coaster or $20 on a new waterpark, it would seem obvious that the $20 million water park would have the much longer lasting effect. Maybe this means we'll see more wooden coasters at SF parks. You can get a really good wooden coaster for under $10 million, a figure that even Shapiro would agree would be much more feasable for the ride to pay off itself.
Smaller rides for families will cost a tenth of Goliath's price, he said.
And they usually have a lot more themeing, and I'm all for that. Let's see more dark rides at SF parks as well. Most all SF parks seem to lack those good old dark rides which are so nice on those very hot or rainy days.
He hopes to sell some of the 3,500 excess acres around parks.
Again, no surprises. Just be careful Six Flags, because once this land is sold, you won't get it back and you may regret that. Do you know the difference in the approach Disney made when building Disneyland vs. Disney World? When the chain built Disneyland, they bought just enough land for what they would need and now it makes expansion almost impossible and you always need to deal with the demands of the neighbors. When they built Disney World, they bought so much land, that it would seem almost impossible for them to EVER run out of land, plus they never have to worry about upsetting the neighbors, because they all live WELL beyond the boundries of the parks. Take SFA. It's a young park with the potential to grow, however, they face TIGHT restrictions from the county to appease their neighbors (including sound restructions, hours of opperation restrictions, light restrictions, and a plethera of other hurdles to consider when building new attractions). The more you let the surrounding community creep in around the park, the less of a "buffer zone" you have against them.
A few parks could possible be sold.
Again, not a big surprise, but who would be next? Lots of talk about SFMM going to Cedar Fair, that would be HUGE. Many of the smaller "unflagged" parks (FC and EV) could be on the blocks, then again most of those parks are already doing what the company seeks to do as a whole... appeal to the families. Any number of the lower performing parks could be next to go (SFEG, SFDL, SFA, SFKK, SFStL), but I guess the big reason for selling any of the parks all comes down to the money. Parks that arn't "pulling their weight" and just arn't getting the profit that the company seeks are quick hits. Parks that are doing good/okay, but have some asset that makes selling them profitable (land value, good deal from a competitor) would also be potential sellers. Personally, I see SFKK as a possible park to go, and if they can find a way to get out of the deal, SFNO too. You could make several arguements for and against pretty much any of the other parks.
Here's hopeing 2006 is the turn around year... *** Edited 1/27/2006 5:02:37 AM UTC by Coaster Lover***
If you can't stand the heights, get out of the line.
Unless the plan is to dismantle 4 or 5 of them and send them to other more needy parks, SFMM will remain primarily a thrill park regardless of what they add to it. 17 coasters is 17 coasters, and that will attract teens whether they like it or not.
TOPTHRILLDUFF said:
Well this might be a stupid question, but this relates to the owner Mark Shapiro. For those who live near or in Cleveland, is that the same Mark Shapiro associated with the Cleveland Indiands?
Nope different guy. Cleveland's Mark Shapiro arguably knows what he's doing.
I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks, than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.
2003, 2004, 2005 saw something the park hadn't seen since 1994... a new family ride (or in this case... rides) Attendance went through the roof compared to the old days and the number of families now visiting is unbelievable! In 1995-2001, no families visited the park except on fireworks days. Now, the new kiddy land is the busiest area in the park and some of the rides... have 30-45 minutes waits! Longer than most of the other rides.
For all that, SF is granting the park a B&M Speedcoaster in 2006. Thanks!
Actually, I'm glad all the B&M's made it in before Snyder too over (and El Toro). What a nice way to go out! ;)
DWeaver said:
Wow, we've gone from Top Thrill Dragster down to Dumbo rides, skipping everything in between.
Yes yes yes yes yes. Ok...so there won't be any more Goliaths (as in, no more huge coasters at SFOG for a while, no more huge coasters for the chain for a while....whatever.) We're hearing about parades and costumed characters *now* but once the ride installations do start coming in, I will pee my pants if they possibly include rides from
Gravity Group -
Another round of mid-sized woodies would be more than welcome. You'll get more of the family participating and there are plenty of smaller parks that haven't seen a new woodie in a long, long time. Mantinence is key, though.
Arrow/S&S - Powder Keg is the model. The ride system seems to work, and is still thrilling enough for the thrill seekers works but still for most of the family. Also, quite a few SF parks have not taken care of the launching gimmick. This is something that is totally run of the mill for your average enthusiast, but for someone who has only been to the New England parks(for instance) it's more like "OMG...and it doesn't even take you up a hill first it's just like....BOOM it just shoots you out really fast!!" Seems totally markteable to me.
Sally - No brainer here. I know a few peeps here don't care of the interactive shoot-'em-up versions, but they create repeat ridership and are highly marketable considering the themeing possibilities.
Vekoma - Yup, I said it. I've seen the Vekoman Madhouse in action at SFNE and SFGAdv and they both seem very popular, but with the high capacity and pre-show, rarely has a long line. The Pandora's box sounds very interesting as well.
But frankly for now I'm still interested in seeing a parade at my local SF park, haha. I hope they put their money where their mouth is. ;)
The chief executive is touring every park in the chain, bucking up employees, pointing out things to fix and getting a little press.
That's pretty impressive, but hopefully this isn't a one time thing. Pretty much all of the SF parks are closed for the season, he would be stupid not to visit the parks again a month or so after opening day to see what still needs fixed or what he may have missed in the first pass. Speaking for SFA, does this mean we will always see Batwing running two trains and two stations? Does this mean we will see TSC finally run 12 or more boats consistantly? Does this mean we will see all rides running at full capacity by opening day? I sure hope so! That would GREATLY improve my image of at least this one SF park.
SFA ran Both batwing stations at least once a weekend during fright fest last year. and On TSC the max number of boasts it can safely run is around ten they topped the year out at 8.
Gravity Groups rides would be great, but I don't see Six Flags putting in a new coaster of any significance for a long, long time.
And yes, I wonder about the health of the coaster manufacturers, as there might not be enough business for everyone.
I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks, than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.
The concern is what is actually a marketable plan. He claims theme parks are all about marketing, but how do they re-sell the same rides year after year? A advertising campaign centered around landscaping, customer service, and adequate staffing is clearly not going to work.
Don't look for any marketing campaing around service and adequate staffing. The marketing camapign will be "come see the new and improved Six Flags (enter park name here)." This marketing will occur after each park has undergone a complete renovation and everything will be fixed up and painted etc. This may also go along with the installation of a major coaster at that particular park.
I would expect SF to either work on a few parks a year, and then give them just minor upgrades while they pour money into the rest of their parks. Each park proabably needs around 10-20 mil in capital improvements to get them up to the higher standards they want.
Also, look to see new themed areas and also to see new sit down restaurants in all of the parks to add to the more family friendly atmosphere that they are trying to put forth.
What we won't see, it appears, are coasters over 100ft for awhile. But I certainly wouldn't rule out a couple of small Gravity Group installations, flatrides and water park additions where they are needed, once the smoke clears. *** Edited 1/27/2006 4:14:10 PM UTC by DWeaver***
A day at the park is what you make it!
Pete said:Gravity Groups rides would be great, but I don't see Six Flags putting in a new coaster of any significance for a long, long time.
I don't see it happening. I mean, do you really expect not a single major coaster at a SF park in the next...5 years? I'm fully onboard with much of what the new leadership is leaning towards but just going cold turkey at every single park for "a long, long time" seems unfeasable to me.
Re-emphasis is fine, if it really works, but even if SFGADv, SFMM, SFGAm, SFoG, and SFOT go to building an adult coaster every 3 - 5 years, that's still 2 coasters a year or so if they are evenly distributed, and even then, what few coasters all built will be in the small to mid-sized range. *** Edited 1/27/2006 4:42:33 PM UTC by matt.***
coasterguts said:
Shapiro needs to keep in mind "families" have teenagers to. Their not going to ride kiddie rides the rest of their life. They need to add thrill rides for teens so when they get big enough they have rides to ride at the park as well.
The parks are already chock full of thrill rides for the teens. They are talking about adding things for the rest of the family to do as well. They haven't started removing the thrill rides for family rides. They will still be there to keep the teens occupied. The idea now is that after the family visits the park this year, everyone will have had a good time and want to return again--not just the teens. That is how they market it--Six Flags...fun for the "whole" family!
Alan T.
Alan T.
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