"You Won't See Any More Goliaths"

You'd think that guys with that much experience in the NFL would realize that we're creating more "Goliaths" every year... ;)

I do tend to agree with Jeff that coasters "paying for themselves" is something that depends on how you run your business...if SF had been installing flat rides over the last five years, would he be saying "no more flat rides cause they don't pay for themselves"...

OTOH, if Herschend installed more sit-down restaurants or what-have-you, we'd be saying what great investments THEY are...'cause what they provide is a GREAT time, so any investment they make is likely to pay off...

The one thing I think really rings true, although not specifically stated as such, is that the building of coasters by SFI has long since past the point of diminishing returns...

Increased theming, landscaping, staff, and some dark rides will certainly help make Six Flags more family friendly.

Increases in park admissions and parking prices, expansions of pay-to-cut schemes while not allowing readmission into the parks will not improve Six Flags' family unfriendly image problems.

Sounds like a break from giant roller coaster projects makes sense to everyone. I'm just wondering how long it will take for someone to ask, "When is Six Flags gonna build us a new rollie coasty?"

A new coaster at one of Six Flags' neglected parks couldn't hurt. Lord knows Frontier City could use one, unless this is one of the parks they are planning to sell off.

Good article. Exciting to hear that the things we complain about all the time are noticed and being taken care of. Capacity, trash, experience, and dirty bathrooms. Good stuff.

I hope they don't go too far with the "kiddie" stuff and focus on a well rounded experience. In other words, lets not tear down Batman and put up rides only children can ride. I personally think he is being misunderstood a bit.

"Parents don't want their kids walking around in clouds of smoke," Shapiro said.

Except when the parent is a smoker! :)

Instagram, Ryan Rides on YouTube

After El Toro when is six flags going to build the people who go to Great Adventure a new rollie coaster?

Sorry had to be a wise guy ;)

Watch the tram car please....

I don't know, Maybe he is learning and getting it. Having rides running and at better capacity was among his statements.

And a smart plan would include a major thrill ride every 4-7 years, Just to keep a large percentage of it's existing market while improving on its long term plan.

Chuck, who would guess that SF took a half billion dollar loss on Geauga lake alone. Initial purchase, Improvements, 4 multi million dollar coasters, Sea Worlds purchace and then selling it for a small fraction of what it was worth.

Well, they could save on some of the additional labor cost by stationing the costumed characters IN the restrooms. That way just about everyone will be sure to meet up with one.

"Tweety in the toilet. Write that down."

Anybody want to guess what my new catch phrase will be?

I think the smart rule is to first be able to operate the assets that the park has before adding new ones. Case in point, Magic Mountain is known for having many rides down and running a lot of rides with one train.

If Magic Mountain could stop building rides until they could get the maintenance staff to get what they have running consistantly, get the ride operations staff to run the rides at full capacity, and get the customer service skills to the employees so that they give their customers a memorable day, I think then they could think about adding new rides.

Perhaps the new leadership is finally realizing this? I hope it's not just talk.

Certain victory.

Most people will say that it's innovation and newest thrills that will keep your attendance spikes year after year. I agree with this statement, but I do think eventually your park will get to a point where you have to say, "Ok we have enough thrills, let's concentrate on other areas".

When I read Shapiro's statement "You won't see any more Goliaths.", I immediately pictured SFOG in my head and all of it's rollercoasters. SFOG, SFMM, SFGAdv have (solely my opinion) exceeded in providing thrill rides to teen and young adult demographics. There is plenty there to keep them coming back year after year. It's time they begin focusing on other scopes of an amusement park by providing more family entertainment.

There should be a good balance that will occupy interests of all demographics and it looks like Shapiro has his head on straight.

"We aren't the only one's on this island"

Rob Ascough said:
How did Millennium Force pay for itself and a hotel? The coaster increased attendance and in-park spending that much since 2000, even when you take into consideration that Wicked Twister and TTD were built since?

Um, because Dick Kinzel said it did? Cedar Fair doesn't generally build anything they don't feel they can pay for in a year or two.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

To add to Jeff's comment, check out the CB podcast with Dick Kinzel, he specifically mentions Millennium Force paying for the hotel.

Dick Kinzel is a dirty liar!!!! ;)

coasterimage - lordgonchar

Kick The Sky said:

Perhaps the new leadership is finally realizing this? I hope it's not just talk.

Why does everyone keep saying the new leadership is finally realizing this. Your talking as though they have ten seasons under their belt when they have less than two months. Shapiro, Snyder and company don't need to finally realize anything. They're fixing areas where the old leadership just didn't get it. As far as I can tell they've made one potentially bad policy, quickly realized it was a bad policy and reversed it. I don't think they're finally realizing anything. I think they get it!!! If it was the previous leadership making these changes, then I would say they finally get it.

*** Edited 1/26/2006 7:37:19 PM UTC by coasterguts***

A day at the park is what you make it!

So if Millennium Force DIDN'T pay for itself and a hotel, do you think Kinzel would have worded it that way?

I'm not saying Kinzel is a liar but the math doesn't make sense. Suppose that Millennium Force, which everyone assumes to be a $25 million coaster, brought 100,000 new people to the park in 2000 and 2001 (the two years before Wicked Twister arrived and started having to pay for itself). If admission is $50 a person, that adds up to $10 million in admissions, way before you start taking out operating expenses. Even if the park happened to sell another $10 million in Millennium Force merchandise and whatnot (highly unlikely), that adds up to $20 million. According to my calculator, that doesn't pay for the coaster, let alone a new hotel.

Millennium Force certainly got Cedar Fair a lot of positive press and there is no way to put a value on that but to say that the coaster not only paid for itself and a new hotel seems to be an exaggeration to me.

Maybe he just means that we'll never see another coaster NAMED "Goliath" =) No more recycling of the names within the chain!

In all seriousness...while I like a new coaster every other year, I certainly don't mind getting lots of stuff and then a coaster to top it off every few years. I'm still not convinced that this new regime will do good in the long run though...

Kev

"And we are now passing under Millennium Force, which, with the arrival of Top Thrill Dragster, is now...just blue."

^According to press releases, 2000 saw a disappointing increase of only 4% to 3.43 million visitors at CP. If I am doing my math correctly that comes out to about a 137,000 increase in attendance. Although attendance was up for the entire chain in 2001 it dropped 9% at CP. I have to agree with Rob, the numbers just don't add up.

Coasterguts, I think Kick meant the "finally" in terms of the SF chain, not the new leadership, like, "finally, some new leadership that realizes this." It would make no sense to accuse the new leadership of long-standing error, right?

HoliWood Nights May 26-27!(http://www.dynamichomeconcepts.com)

DBJ said:
Dragonoffrost,
Flat rides would be a nice addition, but Shapiro has said that they are not going after thrill seeking teenagers, so the odds of those flats being any better than what is typically available in a carnival is slim.

I don't know about your carnivals, but around here in MD/PA the carnival flats tend to be better/more intense than the parks with rides like the KMG Freak-Out, Technical Park Street Fighter, Huss Flipper, Zamperla Power Surge, KMG Tango and KMG Afterburner.

I said he may GET IT because he's actually out and about, Asking whats going on and what can we do to improve it.

Having people that will continue to seek to improve upon every aspect of operations and enforcing it will assure that many good things happen.

Somewhere, Past managment either didn't know what they were doing, Or just didn't car.

They did try to impove employee friendlyness in the last couple years (Although some parks were more of a problem than others) But still trashy parks, ride closures or running at low capacity still caused aggrivation to the guest.

All Im saying is it sounds like they may be on the right path.

I was a little upset about the announced price increases while still giving the gate away though SP's but IMHO the price doesn't matter as long as the service is excellent.

Seriously, why do you pay $20 for a meal at Red Lobster that you can get at Long John Silvers for $5??????????????????/

BECAUSE IT'S THAT GOOD! If it was the same food for three times the price, I'd be eating Long Johns.

Wow. Of all the "good quality is worth the money" restaurant examples I could think of (and I could think of a lot) Red Lobster just doesn't show up.

And I mean ANYwhere on that list.

http://cse.umich.edu/

Whoa, guys, I have a teacher at my school, named Mrs. Shapiro, think any relation? akward? We live in the DC area.

But anywho, I really like the changes, but lets just hope that they acually enforce the changes.