Work being done on Timberwolf

Monday, July 31, 2006 7:12 PM
With all the work being done on Timberwolf at Worlds of Fun this season, I have one hopeful question (though not *too* hopeful). When will we see the end of that God-awful brake on the first drop? You know - the brake that's caused virtually all of the problems the ride has had since they installed it?

I certainly hope so. It would only make sense (at least me) to remove it. Once the retracking is complete would be the opportune time. If they retrack the ride but keep the brake, the ride will only beat itself back into the condition it's been in for the past few seasons. If they remove the brake and allow the train to negotiate the course as it was designed to, the retracking would not go to waste.

Thoughts? Speculation?

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Monday, July 31, 2006 7:15 PM
Although I've only been there once (1998), I didn't find the brake to be a problem. I had 2 morning rides without the brake and the ride was HORRIBLE. I went back laterin the afternoon to find the brake on....shockingly the ride was vastly improved, and I ended up riding it several more times.

It flew in the face of what I believed about those first drop brakes, but it's what I experienced.

I had a similar ride on Mantis this year too...brake free and I got a little too beat up during the first half.

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Monday, July 31, 2006 7:21 PM
Could it be that the quality of the brakeless ride was affected by the beat-up track from a couple years of a braked ride? I rode it before it had the brake, and I remember it being nothing but awesome. Then I moved away for 8 years. When I moved back, the quality of the ride had severely deteriorated.

This is why I mention it happening after the retracking is complete. When all of the beat-up track is replaced, if the brake were removed, the train wouldn't operate in a way that would destroy the track.

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Monday, July 31, 2006 8:24 PM
I'm unsure about Timber Wolf's trim brake (there's actually two in a row).

Before I state my opinion about the brake I will list the changes the ride is had.

The ride was built in 1989 with trailored PTCs. In 1995 the trains were refurbished with four axels per car. This caused the trains to weigh more and go way faster. The heavier trains beat up the track not the trims. GL decided to use G-trains on RWB to equal the weight of the former trailored trains.

It was June 30th, 1995 that a teenage girl was ejected from the ride. She may have stood up she may have not. Either way it seems that the faster ride created the forces that could have made it possible for a rider to be thrown out. That's the main reason why the trim brake is there (not to mention it was causing stress to the track).

In April, 2005 I rode at night, trimless. It was the best ride I ever had. For over a year I complained for it to be turned off permenantly. However, last month I rode TW when the trims were either off or loose. Unfortunatly, it wasn't really better.

Personally, I want the ride to go as fast as it can. That probably means that several changes would need to be made. Timber Wolf needs to be retracked, and possibly redesigned to hold the extra weight of the trains going at full speed.

It may be best to do these things (retracking, increased speed) and other things such as building the tunnels the ride was originally supposed to have, to advertise it as a whole new ride.

I love Timber Wolf and I want it to be the ride I know it can be.

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Monday, July 31, 2006 8:44 PM
Prior to visiting WoF this June a friend of mine who lives a few hours from the park and visits more regularly that I do [I live in Los Angeles] told me the park had done some off-season retracking. When I rode I found the experience to be horribly rough with shuffling trains...including even on straight track!

Not sure what the park did but it was not the awesome ride it was when I first rode in the mid-90s. What a shame ;-(

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Monday, July 31, 2006 8:54 PM
One theory I have is Timber Wolf is so slow (obviously) that it creates more vibration. The train bounces up and down on the track. The slower the ride is going the longer it takes to cross a portion of track, meaning more painful shuffling/bouncing. When the trims are off the train seems to fly over the track either staying at the bottom or top of the track and not continously bouncing up and down. Another thing I've identified is that the ride is much rougher in the even rows. The even rows are on the back of the car and tend to fly up.

Again this is only a theory based on observation, I have no proof to confirm this is causing the problem.

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Monday, July 31, 2006 8:57 PM
I have ridden it without the trim brake and it's still not an enjoyable ride, it seemed the same or worse. I think it has something to do with a girl falling out in 1995. Either way the ride is just TimberCrap.
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Monday, July 31, 2006 9:06 PM
Can anyone list the number of wood coasters that opened with PTC supplied trailered trains?
How about a time frame?

Was the trailered PTC train a Curtis Summmers specifiction to PTC, or was it just PTC's "latest and greatest" design of the time perioud that all coaster builders used?

Are there ANY coasters still using the PTC trailered trains?

With Dorney as my home park, I'm well versed in the downfall of Hercules. While it was obvious to me the track and support structure were taking a beating, I never realized the heavier 2-axles/car trains were the main culprit, and his weight different was enough to affect the speed profile of the ride?

-Steelforceguy *** Edited 8/1/2006 1:08:36 AM UTC by SteelForceGuy***

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Monday, July 31, 2006 9:16 PM
I have ridden it every year since it opened in 1989. Timber Wolf was still pretty good for several years post 1995. It's only the past two years or so that it has been this awful. In its current condition, opening the trim brake would probably cause further damage to the ride.

I have ridden nearly 100 wood coasters now and none of them shuffle anywhere near as bad as Timber Wolf. It seems to me that the supporting structure needs reinforcing in order to maintain the track which needs to be completely redone. Retracking alone is just a band-aid, but it looks like this is being taken care of. There is a brief moment (about 2 seconds) between the thrid drop and the helix where the awful shuffling stops. The ride is salvageable; it's just going to take a lot of work!

At the Coaster Mayhem event, it was said that they are planning to return TW to its former glory. Let's hope they do!

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Monday, July 31, 2006 9:42 PM

Acoustic Visosity said:

I have ridden it every year since it opened in 1989. Timber Wolf was still pretty good for several years post 1995. It's only the past two years or so that it has been this awful.


Thank you! I assume you agree then that it's not crap?

The ride wasn't designed to have these heavy trains. That's the problem and it's caused damage over a period of time.

Along with retracking the ride either needs a) lighter weight trains or b) better structural work that would support the heavier trains and allow the ride to run faster. My preference would be b.

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Tuesday, August 1, 2006 12:04 AM
Even in its current condition (which is frankly God awful), I still can enjoy the ride...a bit. But I love the thing to death, so I'm a bit biased.
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Tuesday, August 1, 2006 12:36 AM
Like Jason and I have stated, this ride is going through a TLC project as we speak. The ride has received quite a bit of reinforcement bracing and this fall is supposed to bring a massive retracking according to the park. The main things that have been done to the actual track is to fill some potholes.

Also I know it is hard to believe for some of you who do not ride the coaster as often as us locals, but they did do some trackwork and it is actually a better ride than it has been the last two years. I know scary to think how bad it WAS. I think after this coming massive retracking, the coaster will run more like her old self.

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Tuesday, August 1, 2006 1:00 AM
The retracking is good, but that brake is still there. Does no one know whether or not it'll be removed in this TLC project? With that brake on, there is no airtime over the hills (there used to be a huge amount of ejector air in several places), the train shuffles terribly, the ride is slow and boring. I WANT THAT BRAKE GONE!!

Yes, that girl stood up. She was switching seats with her riding partner and was sitting on the headrest when it went over the diving turn. Her getting killed was entirely the fault of her acting stupidly and recklessly.

The park hasn't said anything, I'm sure. WOF is in terrible shape, with the removal of Zambezi Zinger and Orient Express, two of its anchor attractions. The park needs a good wooden coaster. Timber Wolf was once one of the best wooden coasters operating. Now it's a pile of crap, and it doesn't have to be. This TLC project is good, for sure, but it'll go to waste after one season if that brake's still there. The ride will start tearing itself apart again and will still be slow and forceless. That's why I think that brake is the NUMBER ONE factor in the quality of the ride. *** Edited 8/1/2006 5:01:19 AM UTC by Tatsukaze***

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Tuesday, August 1, 2006 1:16 AM
You do realize that the brake is preventing the ride from tearing itself apart and not as you say causing the "wear". The brake will not be removed I can assure you that.
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Tuesday, August 1, 2006 9:04 AM
That's unfortunate. If the brake is purely for maintenance, then they should build up the structure to compensate for that, so it can run free like it used to. There are plenty of faster woodies that can run trimless and not destroy themselves. And it will never return to its former glory as long as the trim is there slowing it down. *** Edited 8/1/2006 1:46:39 PM UTC by Acoustic Viscosity***
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Tuesday, August 1, 2006 10:07 AM
As I have said BEFORE and probably will have to do so again, they ARE building up the bracing right now -- that's why it is closed during the week. This action will make the structure stronger. Whether or not they ease up on the brake will remain to be seen once the TLC work is finished.
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Tuesday, August 1, 2006 10:18 AM
Then why did you just say, "The brake will not be removed I can assure you that."???
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Tuesday, August 1, 2006 10:30 AM
^ "Easing up" vs. "removal"... ;)

Timberwolf was in my lower-third of wooden coasters, I found Mamba overbraked, "Morgan-ish" (bad trains, little floats), and pretty meh. Orient Express is thankfully gone. Coaster-wise, for me, it was NOT the best of parks. (That looks MUCH better now, BTW).

Yet, there was something almost tangible about the park, something I loved...oh, yeah, that's it, they had THE best *employees* in all of CF by a WIDE margin. Smiling, friendly, helpful, laughing with the guests (instead of AT them)...kinda like SFFT. :)
*** Edited 8/1/2006 2:31:06 PM UTC by rollergator***

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Tuesday, August 1, 2006 10:49 AM
I made a short visit to the park last night and was 'shocked' at how rough TW was. I tried sensing the trim, but didn't feel that it was on. The bottom of the first hill felt like we were hitting rock bottom. The shuffling was horrendous.

The only bright spot to me was the sprays of water along the track. When did they start doing that?

Fever

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Tuesday, August 1, 2006 11:39 AM

Acoustic Viscosity said:
There are plenty of faster woodies that can run trimless and not destroy themselves.

Those rides weren't designed by Summers/Dinn though. *** Edited 8/1/2006 3:39:48 PM UTC by DorneyDante***

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