What is technically wrong with Mean Streak and Pre

I do remember hearing that yellow southern pine is one of the cheaper woods and thats why it is used in coaster construction. Are Redwoods only found in California?

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This space will forever be dedicated to Hercules-R.I.P. 1989-2003

Redwood only grows in the coastal forests of California (maybe a little bit of southern Oregon perhaps but I don't think so). It needs the moderate temperatures and the morning mist to grow and it grows very slowly.

It's not exactly rare or endangered but it is in short supply and high demand making it pretty expensive (not to mention the ecological value). Was the Beast really built of redwood?

Most of the wood used in construction is Southern Yellow Pine and I don't think it really has much to do with how well a coaster runs - I'm pretty sure most modern wood coasters use this wood.

Many older coasters were probably built with old growth wood that was much stronger then wood available today (because it grew slowly with tightly packed growth rings unlike the "farmed" trees today that are grown as quickly as possible). I've heard this is the reason why Leap the Dips had to have steel put on top of the wooden rails. The restoration used oak rails like the original but modern oak just wasn't as sturdy as the older stuff.
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Ripple Rock Amusement Park
Flying Scooter coming soon!

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RideMan said:
Yesterday, Mean Streak was running with the drop trims turned off (I wonder if they rolled the thing back again during testing last week...) and the train went into that curve OK, but as it got to the top of the curve, there was a nasty jolt to the right.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Dave,

They have been running MS without the drop trims since at least the last of August. We rode it on 8/27 & 9/6 without the trims. The thing I noticed the most was the train didn't jackhammer at the base of the hill and it ran pretty darn good the first half of the ride. Fast and furious like the days of old.

The Beast is built from Southern Yellow Pine with a redwood stain. PKI's Racer was originally built from some other kind of pine (I want to say Western Fir, but I am not certain of that...I got this info back in '96 and didn't write it down!), but all the replacement lumber and new track is Southern Yellow Pine.

(source: Ollie Lindon, PKI Wood Coaster Maintenance Guy, addressing a tour group in the winter of '96)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

In regards to Lightnin' Racer I can't say much about this (I really shouldn't be saying anything at all) but while the structure may have held together...the trains were another story during the first season.

In regards to Wildcat the ride became very rough around 1999, I believe and then the major re-tracking began.

In regards the any non-trailered (thank god theirs only two coaster still running them) PTCs. If something is wrong with the way they are running (ex. Hercules) it's the most likely track that has the problem.

In regards to the Volvo type high seat backs other than being very uncomfortable there is another issue with them (which I am going to keep my mouth shut about). These seat backs are being fazed out. While they are still available on new cars, they are only used if the park asks for them. The standard is now the padded high seats back like Hershey Park's Wildcat runs.
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www.alexsplace.com
*** This post was edited by Alex Nagel 9/16/2003 11:41:08 PM ***

Rideman, I think you got that wrong buddy, The Beast as originally built was built from redwood. They have consistently replaced the wood with yellow pine but in the begining, It was one of a very few coasters built from redwood.

Chuck, who may be wrong but I remember the coaster had a reddish tint to it without any stain and there was also alot of talk about the redwood in the coaster back in 1979.

C\

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Charles Nungester.
It's official Lesourdsville Lake is closed for 2003

I still find it very hard to believe that they built the beast of Redwood. I've read in several places but I've suspected it was a stain. Was redwood significantly cheaper in 1970's? Maybe it was a solution for preserving the wood (natural rot-resistence).
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Ripple Rock Amusement Park

Redwood (Sequoia) is fairly light and not well suited for heavy structural work, although it holds up well outdoors. If you've ever used it for woodworking projects, you know it is extremely expensive. While prices were undoubtedly lower in the late 70's, I doubt they were that low.

Are you possibly thinking of European Redwood, which is a form of pine?

Alex, there is only one coaster running PTC's trailered train now, and that's Predator. Raging Wolf Bobs switched over to a Gerstlauer train this season, which is mechanically identical to (but much lighter than, and significantly less comfortable than) the PTC articulated train.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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loriu said:
They have been running MS without the drop trims since at least the last of August. We rode it on 8/27 & 9/6 without the trims.

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I believe (but don't quote me on this) they have been running it without trims since it rolled back last. That happened sometime during the second to last week of August if I remember correctly.

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James Draeger

where did it rollback?

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This space will forever be dedicated to Hercules-R.I.P. 1989-2003

It usually rolls back at the first drop.

Regardless the thing is running great in the first half without the trims. Significantly smoother if that is possible.

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!

They had the brakes running in July on the 2 when I was on MS at CP.

I sat in the frist seat and it was bad. The frist time I rode in 1995 it had no brakes and went fast.

Going back several posts regarding Eagle at SFGAM, there appears to be brakes at the start of the first drop. They are set up to apply friction to the side frame of the train. I recall several photos which show these in detail. That being said, I do not recall ever noticing them "grab" on any rides I have taken.

One thing I do notice on both Eagle and Viper is that the lift chain slows considerably when the train begins to crest the hill. This may help to limit top-end speed by a small amount.

I really think that the trims were added because there were to many whining cry babies complaining about it being to rough. CP figured if they slowed it down a little, then it would be calmer and it would get the puddin' pies off their back.

I mean think about it. The notion that the trims on the first hill were added just to keep this ride from "tearing itself apart" and going to the great rollercoaster junk yard in the sky is ridiculous.

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Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions

How is that ridiculous? That seems to make sense to me. The less speed the train has, the less force the structure needs to apply in order to change the train's direction. Thus, the less strain on the structure. Wood coasters require tons or maintainance for exactly this reason.

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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph
"Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff

As been said by the park even, that "notion" is 100% true.

One thign I just thought about is this, look at how "wide" Shivering Timbers is, compare that structure to the mega Dinns.

Sure seems like there is a lot more support structure on ST then the Dinns.

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!

JReece, there are brackets at the top of the American Eagle lift and drop, but there is nothing attached to those brackets. They do not touch the train as it goes over the top. This is observed as of 7/26/2003.

Draegs, on 9/7 when I rode Mean Streak, the first drop trims were on hard. I mean, this was the Toothchipper going down that first drop. On 9/14, running with the brakes off was a dramatic improvement for the first half of the ride.

MagnumForce, consider also that the tall hill on the Summers/Dinn giant coasters is also given lateral support by the structure for the adjacent track and the structure for the curves. On Mean Streak, for instance, there is that whole structure for the top of the second hill, and that additional structure about half-way up the first hill that supports that track that wraps around the lift. On Shivering Timbers, there is no additional ride segment adjacent to the tall hills, so additional side bracing is probably necessary.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Just a few thoughts from an armchair engineer:

First i want to agree with Rideman that the trains seem to be a big problem with Mean Streak. I've always hated them. And as pointed out they do not articulte well. But here's the but, that is just a gut reaction for me, and if the trains are so bad why did it run so well for a year or three when it opened? That would also say to me that the engineering isn't a problem unless it affects the aging of the ride as it runs.

Second there was some talk a little back about shaking and lack of shaking on the ride. It would seem to me that a ride that shakes would make for a better (ie smoother or less shuttling) ride but more of a nightmare for the maintenance. Does that make sense to the rest of you? If that is true then there has to be some ideal equalibrium for each case where shaking creates a comfort=affordability equasion.

Third i've noticed that on the sweeping turned hills of the S/D coasters that the hill (in the case of the MS the second)peaks to late so that the train is nearly out of energy at the end of the turn. It just seems more natural to me that an earlier peak in the first quarter of the turn would make for a smoother/faster turn even if the hill is the same height. I would also go further to say that the second hill of the MS could stand to be lowered a ten foot or two. It would be nice for the ride to have some momentum into the third ( and potentially the best) hill of the ride. It is also painfully appearant on the RWB at WOA where if you look at the nearly identical footprinted Riverview Bobs profile the hills all peak much earlier in the turns.

The other thing i notice odd about MS is that it to me seems to run smoother when faster. But that's just one man's opinion.

In the end i have to wonder if the experts in the field know exactly what's wrong with these notoriously rough rides. Because if they did why not just fix the darn things?

The year MS opened, I refused to ride the yellow train because the shaking and banging were much worse. Green had a much smoother ride, with red a bit rougher. That being the case, I would think the trains have a lot to do with the ride. Even with the trims, it can be a rough ride, just not as fast.

lorilu said the trims have "been off MS since the end of August", but I went on September 6 and 7 and the trims were definitely catching on the first drop when we rode it. As Jeff has said int he past, I think the trims are based upon the weight of the train before.

I certainly do miss the "old" MS from the first two years of operation when it was my favorite coaster in the park (yes, even above Magnum).

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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead
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