What is technically wrong with Mean Streak and Pre

What I don't understand is just because the coaster is larger doesn't really mean it will create more forces on the structure. Trains don't seem to factor into it much either because Roar here at MW got really, really rough for a while, but then they did a major retracking and it became smooth again. Now, a year later, the cars are already shuffling like crazy again.

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-Parker
www.SFMWZone.com

But it will create more forces due to higher speeds.

The g forces may be the same. But the more structure underneath the track the more structure there is to fail.

If you take a really long stick and put pressure on the top it will bend fairly easy. If you take that same stick, cut it in half and exert the same amount of pressure on it, it will not bend nearly as easy.

Get the idea?

And trains really do make quite a bit of difference. Son of Beast with more appropriate trains for it's ride would be a MAJOR difference.

When the track is wore out you can feal it no matter what, but when the track isn't wore out and the ride is still rough, the trains are easily at fault.

gerstlauer trains and PTC trailered trains are particulary bad on track, tearing it up at a very fast rate. Put either ona totally straight layout there woudl not be much problem, but put them on turns and they start shuffling to beat all. With Raging Wolf Bob's its the lesser of two evils with the G's.

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!

Back in the early 90's the saying "Dinn Shuffle" seemed to be extremely popular amongst enthusiasts. The problem with D/S coasters were due to various miscalculations but the track gauge always seemed to be the most evident of problems on turns as the train would shuffle back and forth causing the train to lose momentum. Most notable on Hercules from what I remember. Even the mid-sized Wolverwine Wildcat was shuffling terribly the time I rode it. we barely made it back to the brake run that day!
*** This post was edited by HarryTraver 9/12/2003 10:07:31 PM ***

Regarding TdZ, here's what I could get from a consultant who works for Parc Asterix and the park attraction manager.

1- The structure was reinforced a few years ago.

2- The park refuse to grease the ride unless its running too slow

3- they had to rebuild one of their PTC this summer, so for a while... the ride was stuck at one train operation, with dispatch every 4 minutes on average, with a car usually empty!

4- the park does not acknowledge that there is a problem with shuffling and the screeching sound in the corners.

5- the ride was never retracked since its opening.

Sad, ains't it? One of the world's greatest woodie, ran with terrible ride ops and a park policy for it that is bad.

Don't blame CCI for that one, blame the park!

Is it Rampage that has the similar layout to TdZ or is that Megaphobia?

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!

Rampage is similar and larger than Megaphobia.

Unless Knoebel's crossed over to the Dark Side, the Twister does NOT have the same hard seat backs as Mean Streak. Personally, I think a little bit of padding can cover up a multitude of sins. The Conneaut Lake Blue Streak proves that pretty convincingly.

Predator and Raging Wolf Bobs have an additional problem as trains go, in that they had PTC's pathetic attempt at a trailered train. From a structural point of view, the design made sense, as it put the car's weight on the axle and minimized the tongue load on the hitch. Mechanically, though, they shuffled like a Vegas dealer if they hit a curve. Mechanically, the Gerstlauer trains are virtually identical to the articulated ("good") PTC's, so changing Raging Wolf Bobs over to the Gerstlauer train was the zero-cost equivalent of getting a new PTC train...as was done for Texas Giant, Hercules, and Thunder Run.

Here's a question for you:
How much of the problem with the big woodies isn't because they're big or because of the way they're built, or any of that stuff...but rather is because they're all in big parks? How much different would Mean Streak be if it were operated by Kennywood or Holiday World or Knoebels instead of Cedar Fair?

And what would the world be like without hypothetical questions?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

TdZ layout was inspired by Timberwolf at WOF.

The only real problem with Mean Streak was that the first drop did not have enough run out for it's speed and not enough banking in it's first curve, Those who rode it pre trim know what Im talking bout when Shake ya blind is said. If you caught it on a cool morning or day it was a pretty great coaster.

Instead of shortening the drop by raising the bents, CP added a trim. Either way you reduce speed but my way they wouldn't have had to lower the third drop which used to be the best part of the ride.

Chuck, Who liked Mean Streak prior to the trim brake when it didn't beat ya sensless. the pain was in your neck!

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Charles Nungester.
It's official Lesourdsville Lake is closed for 2003

Dave, judging by the performance of the PKI woodies, and woodies ARE PKI, so you would think their maintainence would be impecable. The mega woodies would be just as bad in any park.

All the smaller big park woodies in Ohio (ok NOT Racer but Recar) run great albeit most with with horrific trains.

Of course I don't know of any small park woodies that is over 125 feet so I guess we will never really know.

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!
*** This post was edited by MagnumForce 9/13/2003 1:30:41 AM ***
*** This post was edited by MagnumForce 9/13/2003 1:35:09 AM ***

Regarding Tonnerre De Zeus:

I always thought that Tonnerre De Zeus was retracked for it's third season, although I could be wrong.

A trim brake was added (for it's fourth season, I think) on the drop into the final helix, although it was removed soon after.

A friend of mine rode it last year and compared it to rolling down a cobbled street in a shopping trolly. This year, though, apparently it's running fantastically, and is back on form.

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Comprehensive European ride and coaster reviews
http://www.ukrollercoasters.co.uk

@ SFDL there always seems to be that "one good day" per year where the ride is mind changing and you think it's all fixed out, as I can say it's happened once to me each year since 2000... but once and only once per year... the reality is, it's not getting much "better"....

don't think that you can view the Wildcat/Lightning Racer comparison as strictly one of train. Wildcat was GCI's first coaster. If you look at the history of GCI's coasters, each seems to be a little smoother than the one before, culminating in the remarkably smooth Lightning Racer. I think that much of the difference is improved track design. Also, Wildcat was much smoother when it was new than it is now.

I think coaster manufactures should use steel structures instead of wood. I have been on 3 steel structure coasters and they all are smoth. The Comet at Great Escape, the Villian at SFWOA, and the Silver Comet at Martin's Fantasy Island.

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SFDL_Dude said:
@ SFDL there always seems to be that "one good day" per year where the ride is mind changing and you think it's all fixed out, as I can say it's happened once to me each year since 2000... but once and only once per year... the reality is, it's not getting much "better"....

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Me and Cyclone @ SFNE have the same relationship.

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SFNE Central- Online Six Flags New England Resource
*** This post was edited by SFNE Freak 9/13/2003 11:47:04 AM ***

Parks should learn from the past and never build a woodie over 130ft. I think thats the moral of it all. We tried it, it doesn't work (unless you go Intamin style, but thats not really a woodie and thats a whole other story). I have heard that Shivering Timbers is going to have a trim installed on the 1st drop next season. Anyone else hear that? Is there any woodie, not Intamin, that is over 130 ft that doesn't have a trim break on the 1st drop? I know SOB is one. However, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw one on SOB in the near future. Does anyone know how the ride is holding up structurally? If we use any megawoodie of the past as a reference for SOB's future, it doesn't look so good.

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This space will forever be dedicated to Hercules-R.I.P. 1989-2003

A trim is pretty doubtful on Timbers frist drop. A mid-course perhaps, but that second hill is just too high for a trim to really work IMO. Not saying it couldn't happen, I just doubt it will, and I hope to God it doesn't!

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!

I forgot where I read that, I think it was coaster.net. Thats where I read the whirlwind for laser trade, so I wouldn't really call that a reliable source.

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This space will forever be dedicated to Hercules-R.I.P. 1989-2003

Just in case I think we should all just stand in a circle, hold hands, and pray to Allah, Buddah, Jesus, God, or whomever that it DOESN'T happen

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!

First, *coaster trading* is a GAME for enthusiasts, not something actual parks do...I'd be more concerned about a hurricane hitting Omaha...;)

It's my *opinion* that most all these S-D disasters are in such sad shape because of strong laterals from having turns that are too flat for the speed of the trains...BANKING is probably the best bet in terms or reducing shuffling and the associated wear-and-tear...

Oh, and without hypothetical questions, we'd be reduced to just rhetorical questions, and they just aren't as much FUN.....:)
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"Ju-ju-just like the bad guy, from Lethal Weapon 2, I've got diplomatic immunity, so Hammer you can't sue, can't touch me...." The Peter Griffin Rap