What is technically wrong with Mean Streak and Pre
This just goes to prove that it has something to do with curves, as The Eagle doesn't have any trims 'til the helix, and ST has gone for quite some time without any at all.
------------------
I hear America screaming...
RideMan said:
Here's a question for you:
How much of the problem with the big woodies isn't because they're big or because of the way they're built, or any of that stuff...but rather is because they're all in big parks? How much different would Mean Streak be if it were operated by Kennywood or Holiday World or Knoebels instead of Cedar Fair?
Y'know, Dave, I wonder that myself a lot of the time. Not even with these bigger, newer woodies. Big Dipper at 6FWoA is a perfect example. Add a little bit more padding to those suckers, and they're one person seats. There's no reason why that ride shouldn't be smooth as glass. No reason at all.
Maybe it's because it's what I'm used to, maybe it's home park arrogance, but I honestly think that there's absolutely no excuse for how some of these rides are maintained.
If the Thunderbolt ever ran like any of the rides listed above, our carpenters would be fired.
These rides don't have to be that bad. There's no doubt in my mind. No one goes to Cedar Point to ride Mean Streak, though, so why spend the money on it instead of funnelling it to a newer, bigger, more attractive creation. The smaller parks Dave mentioned need this wood to survive, so they take care of it and make sure that they run well.
That being said, I'll repeat something I said in a Hercules thread. The coaster was built to look good the ride itself was secondary. There's nothing that can make up for a poor design.
kpjb said:
These rides don't have to be that bad. There's no doubt in my mind. No one goes to Cedar Point to ride Mean Streak, though, so why spend the money on it instead of funnelling it to a newer, bigger, more attractive creation. That being said, I'll repeat something I said in a Hercules thread. The coaster was built to look good the ride itself was secondary. There's nothing that can make up for a poor design.
O, but CF DOES indeed give alot of attention to these woodies. Have you heard about the built-in sprinkler system on Mean Streak and the 15 man carpenter crew assigned to Mean Streak? Thats the dilemma I think. They give lots of attention to these woodies and look what they give back. I certainly want to blame CF for these problems but feel it more just blaming the designers(summers + dinn). I really do think that they did all they could do to "save" Herc, I don't think there was anything left for them to do. If Dorney is willing to take down Herc, you know something must be really wrong. It goes far beyond just being an unpopular ride.------------------
This space will forever be dedicated to Hercules-R.I.P. 1989-2003
There's one part on the Giant where you can actually see the train rahter violently shuffling (and definitely feel it while riding). It's on the rising curve that pulls up for a drop parallel with the first drop (the third turn after the lift). Many parts of the Giant also sway a lot. I've noticed several places on the structure (mainly curves) that have no braces to resist the forces in certain directions.
------------------
I lied.
------------------
-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002
But I do agree, all the best tall woodies go straight out after the 1st drop with no turn. Mean Streak, texas giant, and herc all had either a turn or an uphill banked turn directly after the 1st drop.
------------------
This space will forever be dedicated to Hercules-R.I.P. 1989-2003
From a maintenance point of view, he's probably right, and if you look at all the "classic coasters" that people want re-built (IP Wildcat, Rye Aeroplane, etc), they're usually under a hundred feet.
------------------
Goccvp1
Sorry if this has been covered on other threads, but why, exactly are some people saying that Inatamin plug'n'playm coasters are not woodies? An explanation for the not-willfully-ignorant would be appreciated. Thanx
------------------
I want to live where it's all the same.
I want to live where it's all just like today.
I want to live where it's always Saturday.
I thought maybe there was some technical thing I was missing, like some strange rail thingy or something.
It turns out I was right.
------------------
I want to live where it's all the same.
I want to live where it's all just like today.
I want to live where it's always Saturday.
*** This post was edited by prabe 9/15/2003 6:58:33 PM ***
I'm not surprised that Le Monstre can run pretty well with decent trackwork. Morgan's trains lack cushioning, but they actually give a smoother ride than the PTCs do because their geometry is correct. You'll feel the bounce more, but they don't shuffle.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Take the Big Dipper at SFWOA, What is it 65ft? That coaster was great when I first rode it. Now it's rougher than crap!
Maintence has everything to do with how well a wood coaster runs.
------------------
Charles Nungester.
It's official Lesourdsville Lake is closed for 2003
Blue Streak runs pretty damn well at CP excpet for the horrific trains, while MS is total crap.
Hell Thunderhawk at Dorney runs very well while Hercules is crap.
There is a lot more then maintainance issues there.
------------------
If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.
MAGNUM HAD MY BABY!
Second, how are you asking for trouble when you go above a hundred feet with a wooden coaster? Rampage and Shivering Timbers are 100+ feet and are two of the highest-rated wooden coasters in the world right now. Obviously, wooden coaster can cross the century mark in terms of height if everything is done right.
------------------
-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002
I'm just giving you the Bill Cobb quote as it came from his lips. You're more than welcome to argue whether a gentleman who was advanced in age was right or not.
Personally, I think that Mr. Summers was a bad designer, since the majority of his rides needed re-worked.
Also, remember that Cutis Summers felt that negative g's were a bad thing. According to him, you should feel a floating, not a tossing out, sensation. I suppose MF's hill going onto the island would be a great model of his concept (not that I'm saying his view on negative g's makes him a bad designer).
------------------
Goccvp1
I will agree to the fact that Summers was quite a bad coaster designer because he seemed to shun all of the ideas that made wooden coasters so popular for so long. He was completely against negative g's and seemed to have a fetish for smooth transitions. I remember a Roller Coaster magazine interview with him in 1989 where he must have mentioned a desire for "smooth transitions" in wooden coaster design at least a dozen times... how all new wooden coasters had to have them, how Dinn's rebuild of the Lake Compounce Wildcat required changes to the transitions, how the [then-recently] relocated Wild One needed to have some transitions altered when it was moved to MD... you get the idea. It seems that the guy wanted a wooden coaster to do nothing more than smoothly follow an uneventful path, filled with smooth curves and gentle hills. Ironic how his coasters seem to have some of the worst "transitions" of any wooden coasters ever designed! For someone that wanted things to be smooth, he sure messed those curves up an awful lot... and I don't buy into the fact that it is entirely the fault of PTC trains. There are plenty of twisty coasters out there where PTCs work fine... take a look at Knoebels Twister, Rampage and SFA's Roar!
I'm all for pushing the envelope when it comes to coaster design- how else would things progress as they have in the past few decades? But when you chose to mix things up, you can't forget the basics, which is what Summers seemed to do. In his effort to make graceful designs that appealed to a wide range of riders, he seemed to forget that wooden coasters were always about an out-of-control feeling that came from steep drops, sudden curves and effective speed hills.
I respect the man for his contributions to the amusement industry, no doubt about that, but it seems to me that Summer's "greatest" accomplishments were the ideas of others. Cobb supposedly drew up the initial plans for the Texas Giant, SFKK's Thunder Run was the work of John Fetterman (of Knoebels' Twister fame, amongst other things), and the Georgia Cyclone, the Canada's Wonderland woodies and Carowinds Thunder Road were all based heavily upon the designs of other coasters (the Coney Cyclone, Coney OH Shooting Star and Wildcat and PKI Racer, respectively). When the best things that can be said about someone's work are in reference to ideas that he had little to do with, then I have a hard time considering him/her to be a "good" designer.
------------------
-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002
------------------
Nashville needs a theme park!
You must be logged in to post
