Hades is rough because Mt Olympus doesn't maintain their coasters, and they didn't do much retracking when they added the loop. No new train will ever compensate for years of neglect.Last edited by PhantomTails, Monday, August 19, 2013 7:17 PM
I was really hoping that Hades was going to be completely revitalized and smooth and re-rideable and newly-born as a great TGG ride. Then again, I was hoping the same for Sonny when it got the loopectomy.
The crucial difference, IMO, is that Sonny was a piece of dung when it was still on the drawing board, and Hades became a piece of dung through years of "benign neglect." Reading bird's "I hope we never have a 2011 again" made me revisit the one year the Voyage was in a condition of roughness that BEGAN to approach Hades. HW obviously heard the prevailing opinion, and decided to make the effort to restore the ride. I don't know what prompted the decision to stick with the PTCs, but I do know that when the trackage is smooth (and the trains in tip-top shape)...Voyage is still the best thing in the country, if not on the planet. It really is a near-perfect design...and HW spending what it takes to MAINTAIN the ride...is what makes it the best.
I think it makes sense. If HW already went through the trouble of selling off two of Voyage's trains, then had to borrow one of Raven's trains the following season, then buy another train the following-following season I could see that it wasn't worth the trouble to spend the money on the new trains anyways. Especially when so much track work would probably still had to be done.
This is an interesting about-face. What if the park is exploring other options since RMC has come onto the scene?
I still have yet to ride a coaster with Timberliners, but they look like a great idea and from what I've heard, they ride great on the new rides.
Lord Gonchar said:Most likely a bizarre image on a piece of toast.
I think that's how Kinzel made all of his big decisions, too. I'm pretty sure that's why he remembers the sandwich he was eating the day Falfas "quit."
"If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins." --- Benjamin Franklin
I think the only option left for Voyage is RMC... I mean really, just spend the money and place topper track along the entire ride. You can keep the PTC's and it should run much better with much less track maintenance. Now that the Timberliners have no chance, its time for 'Plan B'.
The last time I rode Voyage was two years ago I believe now and it was quite brutal compared to opening year when we rode it. Took two laps and that was enough. I enjoy rough rides to an extent, but Voyage is just pushing it.
I hope RMC already got the call, myself!
If I can correctly recall, the reason Holiday World decided not to do Topper Track was the debate of whether or not it would still be considered a Wooden Coaster. Personally, I think Topper Track qualifies, whereas I-box track would not qualify. Therefore, I would really like to see them use Topper Track, and maybe even get some of the RMC trains like Outlaw Run has.
"We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us."
That is a great point. I wonder how much better Voyage would be with RMC. In simpler terms:
Edited to remove the emoticon nonsense._CJLast edited by Carrie J., Monday, August 19, 2013 6:33 PM
Seems strange... If the ride is not performing correctly and the one obvious fix would be to do a RMC treatment, who cares if it is considered wood or steel? Especially now that the trains failed to make it to the ride.
If it kept the same layout and made it smooth and better than ever, I could care less. If it is a steel coaster with RMC, fine by me... I would actually probably prefer it at this point. Topper or I-Beam. I would think Holiday World would have a similar opinion as well, as long as the ride was improved and possibly even better.
I bet the Kochs have been and are very proud that their park hosts one of the best lineups of wooden coasters in the world. It would be perfectly understandable if these folks were reluctant to jeopardize that designation.
My author website: mgrantroberts.com
I don't know the whole story, but one of the things that's cool about the Timberliners is that they greatly reduce the amount of wear and tear on the track. That's the claim in the marketing material, but even without data you could conclude that since it won't bounce around through turns since they can steer. It makes me wonder what's so special (or detrimental) about that particular ride that precludes the trains from being used, or if it wasn't an engineering issue at all.
Gonch's role (making me think) is apparently being assumed by Jeff today.
What if...instead of the Timberliners failing to improve the ride on Voyage....Voyage, with its all-out ridiculousness, was damaging the trains? Just a thought...
I really think it has nothing to do with the trains themselves and more to do with the delay, Sell of 12 PTC cars and subsequent repurchase of five.
Hades train tested on Voyage this spring, was broken in and opened 3 days after its arrival.
I don't know the whole facts. I do know the backs of the seats were redesigned after one season on the two smaller coasters to address longevity issues. As far as I know the trains are ready to mass produce now and are available for sale. They can do several things no other wooden coaster train can do. Including 5ft 180* turn radius'
Know the origional deal was with Will, We know what happened there and its sad. he was really excited about them when he had the nose car for tryout at HWN one year. Of course even the nose car was changed since.
I do remember them saying things like the track warped to the PTC trains and there was some issues with the Timberliners tracking differently and wearing on them spots differently and that it was probably best if the coaster and trains opened together. HW just spent a bunch of money retracking a ton of Voyage and putting things back to spec. My brother said it was as good as ever this spring at HWN so in that case. I got no problem with either train. It's either rough or its not. Its a very aggressive coaster but at times has left me with a headache when its OFF.
Both HW and TGG have been good for each other and both have grown because of it.
Who knows, Maybe HW just wants to hold off on any major changes anywhere. To the best of my knowledge, Even that Steel coaster that people at HWN 2011 were polled on has no sign of reality as of yet.Last edited by Charles Nungester, Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:43 PM
Just pure speculation here, but how much more speed can Voyage handle safely? All this talk about topper track and I-beams leads me to believe that a smoother surface may lead to increased speed, which IMO would be perfectly fine in the transit out & back- but how fast is too fast in the spaghetti bowl? Perhaps Los Timberliners increased the speed and couldn't track the Bowl... Just speculating.
Either way this leads to the other sin that could happen- brakes, magnetic or otherwise being applied to control the speed and dampening the spirit of the ride a la Beast.
Hello, Hello! (hola!) I rode a ride named Vertigo!-with apologies to U2
The Beast has been trimmed since the beginning. The "spirit" of the ride is as it has always been.
Regarding the PTCs staying:
I for one am very happy that the PTCs are staying. They are my favorite wooden trains in the industry, and work very well with my riding style.
The rides I've had on Voyage have been the most epic, amazing, intense, exhilerating, blissful, insane, satisfying, fulfilling, perfect, complete, and airtime-filled roller coaster rides I have ever experienced! The claim of 24 seconds of airtime is no exaggeration!
On a scale of 1-10, I give Voyage a 12! It's obviously not just my #1 woodie BY A MILE, but my #1 coaster BY A MILE!
Of course, there is no guarantee that the Timberliners would have taken away any of the ride's edge and aggression (which I LOVE), so it's not that I am pre-judging them for the worst. But they represented the chance that the ride could lose some of its edge and aggression, and now I KNOW that I don't have to be concerned about that anymore, because the perfection the PTCs give me is staying!
And part of my concern about a possible switch was that in my experience with other woodies switching trains, I always seem to prefer the PTC trains (over things like GCI or Gerstlauer trains), such as when Hershey Wildcat switched trains and hasn't seemed as wild, intense, or airtime-filled since.
One thing I love about the Voyage is the way you are constantly getting airtime WHILE you are getting slammed into the seat divider or side of the car. I think the Timberliner seats are more contoured if I am not mistaken, which may have reduced the "feel" of the lateral/airtime combo effects that I get in the PTCs.
As for alleged "roughness"? No problem whatsoever for me. There has not been a wooden coaster built yet of the 73 I've ridden (including several that people complain about alleged "roughness") that is too "rough" for my taste and riding style!
I've ridden Voyage 20 + laps in a row with the PTCs and had no problems. (I could have done even more, but I wanted to give love to the entire park since I don't live in the area and don't get to visit that often).Last edited by Frontrider, Wednesday, August 21, 2013 10:17 PM
The rides I've had on Voyage have been the most epic, amazing, intense, exhilerating, blissful, insane, satisfying, fulfilling, perfect, complete, and airtime-filled roller coaster rides I have ever experienced!
So I take it you like it?
My author website: mgrantroberts.com
What exactly is a "riding style"?
Do you do a Detroit lean? Captain Morgan pose? Speedos? I don't understand that terminology.
Anything to convince oneself that being heavily restrained on an amusement ride designed for the general public takes "talent," I guess...
Parallel lines on a slow decline.
What exactly is a "riding style"?
When saying certain trains work well with my "riding style", I was referring to the way one sits, holds on, etc. For example, some people ride "hands up", others do not, etc.
Personally, I like to hold on lightly to lap and/or grab bars, which has the duel effect of bracing myself in a relaxed way and, more importantly, allows me to keep the bar set where it is set so it doesn't fall down tighter mid-ride and staple me, reducing the amount of airtime I can get.
Some bars are "ergonomically" more comfortable to keep them where they are set than others. For example, on a B&M hyper, the handholds are on the lapbar, far enough away from the seat so that by naturally extending my arms forward and outward to hold the handholds, I am also able to easily keep the bar where it is set, without having to ride with my arms bent inward in a less comfortable position to hold the bar.
Since my natural "riding style" is not hands up, but holding on with arms extending outward, you could say the B&M hyper trains work PERFECTLY with my riding style for comfort as well as airtime.
In the example relevant to my original post regarding the PTCs, I find the same thing to be true. While naturally the old-school fixed position bars would be my ideal choice, allowing me to simply rest my hands on the grab bars without a chance of the lap bar coming down tighter mid-ride, as far as "modern" trains running on new woodies I find the PTCs with ratcheting bars the most comfortable for me to ride for a number or reasons, such as the padded, cushioned seats (compared to Gerstlauers). And it is more comfortable for me to ride with one hand (my left if in the left seat) on the grab bar and the other hand (the right if in the left seat) on the inside edge of the lap bar, holding it in place so it won't staple me mid-ride.
In a nutshell, I simply find it more ergonomically comfortable to keep the PTC bars where they are set during the ride than on the other contemporary woodie trains I've ridden.Last edited by Frontrider, Thursday, August 22, 2013 9:29 AM
Hmmm. Guess I shouldn't have said I would go back to Holiday World when they got the Timberliners up and running.
I am so screwed.
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