I'd much rather have a B&M inverted, too.
Every time they have a big cap budget and they don't choose to build one, I get upset.
This year is no different.
-'Playa
(who'd love to be wrong about the WT clone prediction)
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
I guess it would help to have the url:
http://www.themeparkreview.com/srm2002/wof1.htm
scroll to the bottom.
(thank you themepark review for the picture)
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wof fan
I'm honestly not sure that Dorney should even be considered when looking at any sort of "rotation" of capital for these two parks. Dorney has consistently received large amounts for its cap. budget regardless of the other parks' additions.
For instance, in 2000 they spent close to $13 on cap. additions. That's certainly what one would call a "large" amount for a park of its size. Actually, according to CF there have been only 2 years in the 10 they have owned Dorney that the cap. expenditures have been less than $6 million. I'm pretty sure WOF and VF can't say that.
I suppose my point is - hate to say it - DP really isn't on the same scale of WOF and VF anymore - and I don't believe that any sort of rotation program for cap. expenditures exists.
Mike
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Excalibur Team Lead 2002
MHammer said:
I suppose my point is - hate to say it - DP really isn't on the same scale of WOF and VF anymore.
Why would you hate to say it? I already said that a long, long time ago (Page 1, my third post). DP has a potential audience triple the size of VF and WOF.
VF averages about $3 million a year during 'slow' seasons and $9 million on the biggies. You also have to keep in mind that aggressive development would threaten the other park they operate down the road.
What's amazing about VF is how many people they draw out of so small a target market and with so short a season. During the rainiest summer in years and the second season without any new rides, attendance is down less than 1%. Note that this is also without all the fire-sale discounts going on in KC (passholders can bring a friend at half-price any day, twilight fares have been cut, service folk get in for free for a week and can bring other people for half-price too....where does it end?)
-'Playa
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
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Mamba was the last big capital year for WOF.
The Boomerang was a small budget coaster with costs in the neighborhood of VF's Arrow mouse (about $3 million)
-'Playa
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
Common mistake made by a lot of enthusiasts from regions where people per square mile is higher is that if some place is more then a couple of hours away then their not competition. In all actuality VF has quite a bit of competition. Its just not in your face as much as the Ohio & East/West Coast parks.
VF draws people from about a 7 state region believe it or not. (ND, SD, MN, NE, IA, WI, IL I was actually suprised by Illinois folks being there, but I've ran into a bunch of them this year.)
Anywho breaking each area down in terms of competition. North Dakota & South Dakota are pretty well locked up for Valleyfair with no real competitive threat. So the Dakotas are locked up. However when Wild Escape (To be located in Council Bluffs, IA) opens you're going to have some competition with your South Dakota market & Nebraska market right there (more on Nebraksa later) As of this year, however VF has SD pretty much to themselves.
The Minnesota market is actually more competitive then one might believe. A lot of people in Minneosta choose between Valleyfair or the Dells. The Dells is mucho competition for the 'fair. Some of you may think that this would prompt VF to try and expand their waterpark more, but this is not the case. There's a legit reason for this, and its not space or even the capital it'd take to make it happen. Anyway the Dells is major competition for Valleyfair in the Minnesota market.
Believe it or not the Iowa market is probably one of the most competitive markets around. I realize it sounds crazy but its true. Valleyfair draws people from Northern Iowa And Eastern Iowa where Southern Iowa tends to venture to Worlds of Fun, Adventureland, Six Flags St Louis, or Six Flags Great America.
The Valleyfair share of the Iowa market tends to make its choice between Adventureland, a weekend at Iowa's Great Lakes (Arnold's Park), the pesky Dells ;) , and Six Flags Great America. Soon Wild Escape will be added into this competitve pile.
The Wisconsin market tends to pick between the Dells, VF, or SFGAM. And believe it or not Northwest Illini tends to have a good share of people make it out to the Fair.
So, the question is, "Does Valleyfair have competition," the answer is very easy. Yes the Fair has quite a bit, and more then it seems your average enthusiast thinks. Yes, please understand that Worlds of Fun has SFStL, SDC, Adventureland and soon Wild Escape & Celebration City to compete with.
However, remember that Valleyfair has SFGAM, the Dells, Adventureland, and soon Wild Escape to compete with. Also, as CoastaPlaya has made clear a few times, remember that Valleyfair's numbers are very strong. Another reason, I personally believe, is that Valleyfair's Operations division is run very very well, and it seems like Worlds of Fun is tending to have a problem with getting everything on their side of things figured out. Its kind of like Six Flags. You can't just add another ride to fix a problem.
And I think its probably a reason why Worlds of Fun hasn't gotten much since Mamba. As soon as WoF gets itself straightened out (and hopefully this new guy they brought in will set things right) I'm sure you'll see its numbers go back up. And as soon as their numbers go back up I'm sure Cedar Fair will feel comfortable being more aggressive then it currently is with giving WoF a bigger capital expansion cap.
Let it be noted that when I mean numbers I'm not talking just Admissions. Operating Costs & Ride Effenciency has a lot to do with it too I'm sure
I must apologize for any spelling or grammatical errors contained in this post. Its late and I'm starting to get tuckered out.
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Excalibur Team Lead 2002
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WOF's Morgan applied some of the lessons learned from their first hyper (VF's WT), but I've had Steel Force rides where the train was as heavily braked as the ones at home.
Valleyfair Fan's point was that VF is better marketed and operated which results in better attendance. Of course, the 2000 IAAPA awards bestowed upon VF's marketing staff indicate the industry thinks so, too.
-'Playa
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
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wof fan
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35 coasters and counting!
Can't wait to ride Wicked Twister!
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Excalibur Team Lead 2002
Matt said:
Valleyfair fan was not referring to how the coasters were run, simply how the overall park was run, including rides, shows, merch, maintanence, food and everything else that falls into the operations.
cant forget "Security" ;)
*** This post was edited by Funkytones on 8/23/2002. ***
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