Two more out the door at Geagua Lake?
^^ Yea, but no one's closing GL, turning it into a Super Target and expecting enthusiasts to shop there, so your comparison doesn't really apply in this situation.
Ok, sure GL's moving a couple of thrilling rides. If you look at it from an enthusiast's point of view, it sucks. Over the last like what 7 years or so, enthusiasts have had a nice corridor of 3 major thrill parks (CP, GL, KW) with two closeby thrill parks (HP and KI). One of those is semi-going away. Ok, so think of GL as nothing more than like Arnold's Park in Iowa or Dutch Wonderland in PA. Nice park? Probably. Great rides? Maybe a few if you're hardcore into the hobby. But a place that you put on your list if you're looking for high thrills? No! And it never should have been, that was the mistake in the first place (made by Six Flags).
If some folks in this thread don't take off the enthusiast-colored glasses, they'll drop dead from a heart attack (if the gravy doesn't get them first) over the fact that GL isn't a thrill park anymore. Guess what, that's not a good business model in the local economic situation and local competition situation. If you're a fan of electronics stores, I'm sorry but as much as it makes you happy, a Best Buy, Circuit City, Crutchfield's, JR's and 2 Mom and Pop stores all within 1 mile of each other are not all going to survive! Someone's going to have to break ranks and decide to sell TVs only and have a better selection of TVs. I think that's the way this situation needs to be looked at.
I don't think it's unrealistic at all to expect a group of people who, in my opinion tend to be "smarter than the average bear" (most of the time) to take a deep breath, step back from the situation and look at it from a perspective outside of that of a very small portion of the park-going public who honestly isn't the kind of patron these places really want to put forth a whole lot of effort to attract!
Impulse-ive said:
But a place that you put on your list if you're looking for high thrills? No! And it never should have been, that was the mistake in the first place (made by Six Flags).If some folks in this thread don't take off the enthusiast-colored glasses, they'll drop dead from a heart attack (if the gravy doesn't get them first) over the fact that GL isn't a thrill park anymore. Guess what, that's not a good business model in the local economic situation and local competition situation.
Your first paragraph is exactly why my comparison is a good one. Geauga Lake is not going to be a thrill park any more. For people who like the more thrilling rides, they might as well close shop and put in a Target. This may turn out to be a great business decision (or it may not) but they've just lost a segment of their fanbase just like we lost ours when we closed the Sears. We knew it was coming and obviously so does Cedar Fair.
For your second paragraph, maybe I shouldn't speak for everyone on this board (and I can't believe I'm sticking up for "enthusiasts" in general to begin with) but its not like they are all sitting at home crying themselves to sleep at night. They are posting a couple of posts to a roller coaster message board. This is where they are supposed to react.
- Jeff
Uncle Coaster said:
Why should anyone here look at this situation from anything but "enthusiast-colored glasses"? Most people here are enthusiasts, right?
while some are looking at through "enthusiast-colored glasses"... many others are looking at it through their "Cedar Fair can do no wrong" glasses.
*** Edited 8/30/2007 2:16:49 PM UTC by SLFAKE***
ProgRay said:And who the hell are you to tell people what "feels right"? Oh wait... that's your opinion.
I'm not telling anyone anything. I stated my opinion, just like you said. I stand by it.
Uncle Coaster said:
Why should anyone here look at this situation from anything but "enthusiast-colored glasses"?
I was going to say it but thought I'd keep my mouth shut and see if anyone else objected to that comment.
Impulse-ive said:
I don't think it's unrealistic at all to expect a group of people who, in my opinion tend to be "smarter than the average bear" (most of the time) to take a deep breath, step back from the situation...
I think you're giving some people a bit too much credit. I'll admit there are people here with some good ideas and intriguing insight, but I wouldn't say this site is populated by a few "genius" bears. Last time I checked, none of the armchair CEOs around here are actually CEOs of major companies, let alone amusement parks. In fact, most of the vocal here have nothing at all to do with amusement parks and know little more than the general public, so I take everything they say with a grain of salt and I think doing that would behoove anyone looking to take part in a conversation on this site. It's not like the words of these genius bears are the equivalent of ten commandments carved into stone tablets.
As a consumer, I could avoid looking at this whole situation through enthusiast glasses, but if I really wanted to do that, I wouldn't be typing this right now because I'd want nothing at all to do with Coasterbuzz. No one is under any obligation to look at anything from a business perspective when they happen to be a customer. When gas prices go up, I don't side with the oil companies and assume they needed the extra money- I get mad because of the hit my wallet takes. When a store on my way home from work stops carrying something I want, I don't try to understand that the item didn't sell that well- I get upset because now I have to go somewhere else that's not as convenient. Talking business is all well and good but I think it gets taken a little too far.
A park got a bunch of coasters, and that made enthusiasts happy. Now the park is losing most of those coasters, and that makes the enthusiasts unhappy, not to mention skeptical of the park's future. I'm not sure I see the problem.
In fact, I don't like Dominator (or any B&Ms) very much. I'll ride it once in a while because all roller coasters are fun. So I'm not concerned about Geauga Lake because "they're taking out the best coaster in the park and what am I going to do for my thrill fix now???!!!!"
The problem is they are taking out a lot of stuff from Geauga Lake. 2 coasters so far, maybe 2 more, the monorail, the free fall, the boats on the lake, and maybe the observation tower, plus a whole bunch of other stuff was removed during the Six Flagging. Not to mention they sure don't seem to be in any hurry to fix Raging Wolf Bobs.
If they really want to bring the park back to what it was during the 1980s they'll have to do a whole lot more than just remove coasters.
Maybe Cedar Fair has a plan and maybe they don't. Anyone who knows for sure isn't going to say so on here. But what it looks like through any type of glasses is Geauga Lake is being dismantled piece by piece with virtually no improvements done to compensate. Enthusiasts and the "general public" are right to be concerned if the park really does have much of a future.
Those who are so certain that it all makes perfect sense should probably take off their Cedar Fair colored glasses.
That being said... Even if Dominator would be "safe" and two other of Geauga Lakes major coaters were rumored to be on the "removal list", added to the other two removed coasters, plus all of the other attractions removed, with no visible improvements being even attempted, it still would look like a slice and dice job to me.
Face it, if this would be happening at any park owned independently or by another chain (SF?), some of the very same folks who are bending over backward to say what a good business decision this is would be screaming bloody murder.
Also, IF Cedar Fair is interested in doing a "reset" back to the old says and is not simply using the park as "storage" for coasters and rides until they can be relocated to parks they want to keep, then they are certainly going about it in a strange way. We on this site who have over analysed this thign to death certainly have no idea what in the world his happening... some say it makes perfect sense "in the long term", other (myself included) say the writing is on the wall and its not a matter of if this park will be added to the Defunct list, just a matter of when... what in the world is your "average Joe" thinking when he sees ride after ride, coaster after coaster being removed from the park? It certainly can't be good. If GL can't attract the desired crowds now, "down sizing" with no visible signs of any sort of imporvements, may only serve to drive away even more of that quickly evaporating pool of visitors.
A line often heard is "many people didn't even know the park was open"... and that was WITH its full compliment of attractions. Now that those attractions are being removed, one by one (or two by two as it seems), even those folks who still know the park is operating have got to be thinking that things don't look very good.
As such, it stands somewhere between MiA and WoF as far as attendance goes.
They're not going to 'grow' GL into a million visitor a year park at the expense of their other properties. The local economy is in the toilet. And Kennywood? Their locals ain't switchin' brands. Nuh uh.
Soooo they're going to reconfigure the ride and attraction mix until GL turns a profit like the other parks do. You know, like the ones without so many expensive-to-maintain marquee coasters that still draw more annual visitors.
That's what will happen. Nothing more. Nothing less.
-CO
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
Lord Gonchar said:
I guess we all need to bookmark this thread and check back in 2 or 3 years to compare notes. :)
Absolutely right.
But if one wants to speculate CF hasn't added anything since 2005--and even then they downsized Phase II of the water park.
Maybe CF will make the needed investment to keep Geauga Lake at least somewhat "fresh." But, if you were on an Internet site speculating, so far there is no sign that this is the case.
This Isn't A Hospital--It's An Insane Asylum!
Things can be smart but suck (removal of coasters), be dumb but rock (TTD comes to mind) and everything in between.
Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."
When Premier first bought the park back in 1995 and added Mind Eraser (Head Spin) and Grizzly Run, I had never seen the park that crowded in years other than the yearly Oktoberfest. Of course times are different now but with just a little reinvestment on the rides side, doesn't have to be a big, major ride, I'm sure things would pick up. Just show the people, especially those who live nearby and drive by Geauga Lake often, that you have interest in the park and plan on keeping it open by adding some smaller attractions. A flat ride can't be as expensive to operate and maintain compared to something like X-Flight or Steel Venom.
X Factor
Just show the people, especially those who live nearby and drive by Geauga Lake often, that you have interest in the park and plan on keeping it open
Now if they were doing THAT, even with the removal of coasters, I would be a little more optimistic.
And even during the 'boom' years...how many of them were coming in with much, much, MUCH more money being spent on marketing in Toledo and Michigan?
Given the amount spent on cap expenditures vs. the additional visitors gained...how many of those years were actually profitable?
Spread out the astronomical purchase price of the Sea World property over those years and I'll tell you how many.
Zero.
-CO
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
Yeah the addmissions are cheaper but you get slapped with a big old 10 parking fee and 15 dollars for a meal. 3-3.50 for a drink.
What they're trying to do and what they are actually doing are two different things.
Chuck
If that were to happen, there would be absolutely no attraction between Grizzly Run and Happy Harbor. And since GR is somewhat of a maintenance nightmare, I could foresee the logic in then closing that ride as well (there are already three other water rides on that side, it's old, it's not very popular, etc.).
Under that scenario, we would probably end up with a fence just beyond the entrance to Texas Twister. Patrons would be forced to use the bridge as the only means across the lake.
I'm guessing this is where we'll see the park in two more years (probably with Head Spin yanked out as well). This would leave the park as a nub of the old ride park dangled from the tail of WWK. Now whether this would constitute the nucleus for the new, future Geauga Lake to build upon, or whether it would serve as the impetus for further downsizing, we'll see.
One thing I'll say. If Cedar Fair ever does fully close the ride side, not only will I not have any interest in ever visiting the waterpark (unless my daughter drags me kicking and screaming there). I also probably also won't kick in any extra visits to Cedar Point or Kings Island...not through any animosity, only that I feel I already visit those parks enough as it is. Instead, that extra love would be going to places like Kennywood, Waldameer, Conneaut Lake if it ever emerges from their mess, Idlewild, and so on.
My author website: mgrantroberts.com
ApolloAndy said:There's a difference between thinking something sucks (enthusiast glasses) and thinking something's dumb (businessperson's glasses).
As a noted wearer of *bifocals* (well, in this context, LOL)...I have to say that from the businessperson's perspective, CF needs to realize that the GP in Cleveland/Aurora right now is probably thinking more along the lines of the "enthusiasts" posting here. What I mean by that is that a local is ONLY seeing the tear-down of what was clearly an overgrown park.
CF probably DOES have a vision for the park - I'm currently promoting a beach-boardwalk atmosphere, complete with a couple wooden coasters, some flats, and maybe some volleyball nets (private cabanas) along the lake. But this is a time when CF needs to SHARE their vision for the future of GL (whether it agrees with mine or not) or, alternatively, risk losing those 700K patrons...their choice.
P.S. As always, I reserve the right to be wrong... ;)
*** Edited 8/30/2007 8:32:06 PM UTC by rollergator***
Closed topic.
