Two more out the door at Geagua Lake?
As it stands right now, the park is probably too "small" (attendance-wise) for a theme park-sized B&M floorless coaster, but why send the SLC away? If there really is too much capacity at the park, why not retire some of the older, less-popular rides like Head Spin and Double Loop? No doubt those rides cost money to maintain and operate, just like Dominator and Thunderhawk. Hell, I'd even give up Wolf Kabobs if it meant keeping Dominator, because Dominator is going to be the bigger draw and has a better reputation.
It seems that Cedar Fair is making knee-jerk reactions to the attendance problem that may have started to resolve itself this year, if what I'm hearing about the figures is to be believed. The removal of X-Flight and Steel Venom were good moves, but does everything major that was added in the past 10 years have to be removed? Why not build a park around some of the more popular rides that still exist, instead of stripping the midways bare and giving people the impression that CF has already started digging a hole to toss the park into?
*** Edited 9/5/2007 8:36:07 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***
As for the ride side closing entirely---as far as I can tell, that's nothing but wildfire internet rumor with no credibility whatsoever. Again, that doesn't mean it's not true, but if I were a betting man, I'd be betting against complete closure anytime soon.
The floorless, yeah, I can see the issue there. Maybe even send the Boomerang away with it. But Double Loop is sorta a park icon from what I gather from the locals (those people that, well, WERE supporting the place), and an SLC is what you have when you don't draw enough peeps for a B&M invert. Or if you're PCW... ;)
Bottom line: Not even MiA is a good enough reason to remove the SLC...taking out the only inverted coaster at the park, that just seems to suggest a one-way street for the park...IMO.
edit: stupid ^arrows^. Supposed to face >this> way anyway.. ;)
*** Edited 9/5/2007 8:58:26 PM UTC by rollergator***
That thing is good eats.
Rob Ascough said:
^^ That's true, which is why these rumors of Geauga Lake closing at the end of the year (notice I didn't mention Wildwater Kingdom) are all the more disturbing... and curious. The park clearly does have more rides capacity than it needs, but is the capacity the issue, or is it that the riders that once filled the seats on those rides are no longer going to the park? Wasn't the park pulling much more than a million people per season for a while? Those people didn't leave the area (not all of them, anyway)- they just got fed up with the place and could probably be coaxed back by improving the place.As it stands right now, the park is probably too "small" (attendance-wise) for a theme park-sized B&M floorless coaster, but why send the SLC away? If there really is too much capacity at the park, why not retire some of the older, less-popular rides like Head Spin and Double Loop? No doubt those rides cost money to maintain and operate, just like Dominator and Thunderhawk. Hell, I'd even give up Wolf Kabobs if it meant keeping Dominator, because Dominator is going to be the bigger draw and has a better reputation.
It seems that Cedar Fair is making knee-jerk reactions to the attendance problem that may have started to resolve itself this year, if what I'm hearing about the figures is to be believed. The removal of X-Flight and Steel Venom were good moves, but does everything major that was added in the past 10 years have to be removed? Why not build a park around some of the more popular rides that still exist, instead of stripping the midways bare and giving people the impression that CF has already started digging a hole to toss the park into?
*** Edited 9/5/2007 8:36:07 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***
Well that's part of the problem...from what I hear Dominator is sending out trains that are mostly empty & a ride like that would be better suited for one of the higher attendance parks such as KD.The ride doesn't even need to use all three trains,let alone two because they're simply not filling all available seats & it's costing them more to operate at GL than what it appears to be worth.
If it weren't for CF's debt after the PP purchase they probably wouldn't be removing rides from GL & relocating them to other parks but CF doesn't want to spend millions on new cap ex for rides while in debt when they can relocate rides from an underperforming park like GL....that's the mistake SFI made back in the Burke days & those investments didn't pay off & look where they are now as a result.
Now if these two rides are removed does anyone envision that they might have a plan to replace them with a new lakefront coaster with in acouple seasons? I can see a nice woodie going in that spot myself.
Charles Nungester said:
The parks aren't winning anymore and consider a big factor of buisness as HOW MANY PEOPLE are in the park buying food, souvineers, Drinks and number of parking passes sold.
If the increase in per cap grows faster then attendance drops the park* comes out ahead. Not to mention crowds are smaller, lines are shorter, and in theory the experience may improve for those willing to pay for it.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
*park as in parks in general, not specifically referring to GL here.
No, I said short term they can grow the cap like this. Long term they lose.
Chuck
BATWING FAN SFA said:
Well that's part of the problem...from what I hear Dominator is sending out trains that are mostly empty & a ride like that would be better suited for one of the higher attendance parks such as KD.The ride doesn't even need to use all three trains,let alone two because they're simply not filling all available seats & it's costing them more to operate at GL than what it appears to be worth.
But that's one of the things I don't get. Suppose Dominator is sending out empty trains (which wasn't the case on Sunday night- trains were full with two-train operation)- how is Dominator any different from Double Loop? I doubt that one coaster costs a lot more than the other to operate, and if you factor in the maintenance required on a seven year-old coaster versus a thirty year-old coaster, I'm sure Dominator winds up being cheaper, especially when ridership on one is greater than ridership on the other.
Dominator is clearly the park's headline attraction, and I think Thunderhawk may be second (judging from the line it had). If Cedar Fair wants to rebuild the park into something else, how do they figure it makes a lot of sense to rid the park of two things that keep a large number of guests happy?
It was weird to have to wait a couple cycles!
But a good weird!
Rob Ascough said:
I really, really, really hope you're right. I'd hate to see that park close because it would mean the death of one of the most underrated wood coasters in the country. Big Dipper is a gem.
Well, everyone looks at things differently, but Big Dipper was really awful in June. The out-section was brutal, while the back-section was surprisingly good. Out of the four of us on the trip, only one person rode it again because he missed it in 2000 and has a higher tolerance for rough woodies.
I think it could be really great if they just retracked the whole thing.
zcorpius said:
OK, I'm not sure how this works for Cedar Fair, but doesn't each park have its own budget for capital expenditures? If so, and IF its true that Dominator is going to KD, wouldn't it make sense that KD would have to pay for that ride. Where does that money end up? How much does a slightly used floorless go for? I could see this being a nice shot of cash for GL to use to continue turning the park back into a family/picnic type park. Or am I completely ack basswards and GL will gift the ride to KD?
Uh. It doesn't work like that. Kings Dominion doesn't have to purchase the ride from Geauga Lake. All assetts at all the venues that belong to Cedar Fair are under one big umbrella. So the instance of Firehawk being relocated to Kings Island didn't mean the value of that roller coaster was allotted back to Geauga Lake as if it were two brothers selling each other baseball cards.
The Dominator,thunderhawk,and the Villain is what people go to GL to ride. The BD is getting so bad that people I here about only go on it once as a tradition to GL.
zcorpius said:
OK, I'm not sure how this works for Cedar Fair, but doesn't each park have its own budget for capital expenditures? If so, and IF its true that Dominator is going to KD, wouldn't it make sense that KD would have to pay for that ride.
I'm not sure how that works either, although I've been led to believe that a coaster received from another park in the chain counts as a capital expenditure, so if that's the case, wouldn't that mean the park "giving" the coaster gets some kind of credit that could ultimately be used to write off debt or spend on something else?
Intamin Fan said:
Well, everyone looks at things differently, but Big Dipper was really awful in June. The out-section was brutal, while the back-section was surprisingly good... I think it could be really great if they just retracked the whole thing.
That's really too bad because when it's running well, Dipper is a fantastic ride. I'll admit that it wasn't running as well as it was in 2005 (the coaster was sublime that season) but I didn't notice a lot of roughness, just some mild pounding on the bottoms of some of the drops. I'm pretty sure many parts of the ride were retracked a few years back so I think any work done would need to focus on a few sections and not the whole ride.
Rob Ascough said:
BATWING FAN SFA said:
Well that's part of the problem...from what I hear Dominator is sending out trains that are mostly empty & a ride like that would be better suited for one of the higher attendance parks such as KD.The ride doesn't even need to use all three trains,let alone two because they're simply not filling all available seats & it's costing them more to operate at GL than what it appears to be worth.But that's one of the things I don't get. Suppose Dominator is sending out empty trains (which wasn't the case on Sunday night- trains were full with two-train operation)- how is Dominator any different from Double Loop? I doubt that one coaster costs a lot more than the other to operate, and if you factor in the maintenance required on a seven year-old coaster versus a thirty year-old coaster, I'm sure Dominator winds up being cheaper, especially when ridership on one is greater than ridership on the other.
Dominator is clearly the park's headline attraction, and I think Thunderhawk may be second (judging from the line it had). If Cedar Fair wants to rebuild the park into something else, how do they figure it makes a lot of sense to rid the park of two things that keep a large number of guests happy?
Well with Double loop the technology to begin with isn't nearly as expensive as with Dominator,also you've got to take into account that Dominator has a much more complex station configuration with many more moving parts(the retractable floor) that have to be maintained so that may very well drive up maintenance & operating costs just the same as XF did.
Rob Ascough said:
BATWING FAN SFA said:
Well that's part of the problem...from what I hear Dominator is sending out trains that are mostly empty & a ride like that would be better suited for one of the higher attendance parks such as KD.The ride doesn't even need to use all three trains,let alone two because they're simply not filling all available seats & it's costing them more to operate at GL than what it appears to be worth.But that's one of the things I don't get. Suppose Dominator is sending out empty trains (which wasn't the case on Sunday night- trains were full with two-train operation)- how is Dominator any different from Double Loop? I doubt that one coaster costs a lot more than the other to operate, and if you factor in the maintenance required on a seven year-old coaster versus a thirty year-old coaster, I'm sure Dominator winds up being cheaper, especially when ridership on one is greater than ridership on the other.
Dominator is clearly the park's headline attraction, and I think Thunderhawk may be second (judging from the line it had). If Cedar Fair wants to rebuild the park into something else, how do they figure it makes a lot of sense to rid the park of two things that keep a large number of guests happy?
Why not send Double Loop? You answered your own question. Double Loop isn't worth a whole lot to another park while Dominator, or Thunderhawk is. What park wants a 30 year old coaster marked as new? They are yanking the most popular coasters and most expensive coasters out of there, and sending them to someplace else.
Closed topic.
