Track at SFMM
While SFAW was not specifically mentioned in the call, SF did say something to the extent of "our smaller parks are performing well." If SFAW was way down and hurting the chain, they would be receiving a new attraction. It's as simple as that.
I don't know where you get your figures from (since SF doesn't release attendance numbers) but I *do* know that SFAW has incredibly high season pass sales. If people are buying season passes, people must be visiting the park. Thus, the GP really must not have a huge problem with the paint jobs or the lack of new attractions.
Additionally, from looking at past AB releases, SFAW comes in pretty steadily behind SFStL in attendance. That's above SFDL, SFA, SFEG, SFKK, and others. That changed and shuffled around a bit this year, but SFAW is still quite high on the list. If the park isn't adding new attractions and people are *still* pouring through the gate (moreso than those other parks), then SFAW *must* be making money. It's that simple. There's no Six Flags conspiracy to cheat Houston residents out of new coasters - your park is doing fine, so you don't get any.
-Nate (who reminds you that SFoT, one of the top four parks, is just four hours away)
-Nate
coasterdude318 said:
I don't know where you get your figures from (since SF doesn't release attendance numbers) but I *do* know that SFAW has
I get my figures from park management who have admitted that attendance is down because they are having a devil of a time luring people in without all that much to market. This year about all they could do was throw in Waterworld for free hoping to attract guests.
the list. If the park isn't adding new attractions and people are *still* pouring through the gate (moreso than those other parks), then SFAW *must* be making money. It's that simple.
This is daft logic, because a park like Magic Mountain pulls in a lot more people already than Astroworld - so why did they need another ride for 2003? They *must* be making money, right? Astroworld's doing mediocre to fair business, certainly not the worst in the chain, but it would be doing a lot BETTER business if Six Flags would actually upkeep the place some. People around here think of it as a dirty, run down, paint-peeling has-been park compared to how it seemed just 10 years ago and attendance is down a LOT from 10 years ago. At one time Astroworld and Six Flags Over Texas were pretty close to neck and neck in both quality and attenandce and now SFOT does about twice the amount of business because Six Flags decided to continually upkeep and improve that park while neglecting Astroworld. If the Houston park had gotten the same amount of attention it would be a big contender, this is a large metropolitan area around here.
Fierce Pancake says:
"This is daft logic, because a park like Magic Mountain pulls in a lot more people already than Astroworld - so why did they need another ride for 2003? They *must* be making money, right?"
SFAW doesn't have competition from four other major parks like SFMM does: Universal, Knotts, and the two Disney parks. For Houstonites its Astroworld or travel to Dallas or San Antonio, so less competition means less major improvements are needed over time.
Besides...everyone knows SF Corp just hates SF Astroglide anyway ;-)
Moosh - living in LA has its benefits...
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If Houston residents think SFAW is such a crappy place then why does it have some of the highest (if not *the* highest) pass sales of all the parks?
Here's my question for you - why do *you* think SF has chosen to ignore SFAW? You'd think that if a park has the potential to bring in more people that would justify the expense...so why isn't SF adding to Astroworld? Does it make sense to you?
I'll admit that I can't speak directly for SFAW because I've never been there, nor do I have any figures for that park. I do know what SF has openly stated about their business strategy and it makes good sense to me. I also feel that a lot of people just don't understand it, and I'm just tired of those people whining about not getting attractions. Certainly nobody owes you anything.
-Nate
*** This post was edited by coasterdude318 on 10/24/2002. ***
You know for a good while SFMM was getting stuff every other year ie...Ninja in 88, Viper in 90, then things got a bit off with Psyclone, Flashback, and Batman. It picked back up with Superman in 97 (even tho it was supposed to be in 96), Riddler in 98, Goliath in 2000....the "schedule" was off with Deja Vu and X in 2001, but will be back with this new ride in 2003...
It seems the management likes to spread rides out, but then bunch a few together.....but if they have the money to do it I'm not complaining.
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"ok everyone go ahead and pull down on your shoulder restraint so you feel nice and stuck!"
Here's my question for you - why do *you* think SF has chosen to ignore SFAW? You'd think that if a park has the potential to bring in more people that would justify the expense...so why isn't SF adding to Astroworld? Does it make sense to you?
Obviously the Houston park has the potential to bring in more people, because it USED to bring in many more people than it now does. Back when Time Warner, Bally, etc actually gave a damn about the place and kept it in decent operating condition as well as cycled new attractions in - Astroworld did much better. Some Houston attendance figures:
1992: 2.0 million
1993: 2.2 million
1995: 2.4 million
1999: 1.9 million
2001: 1.7 million
Now obviously the market has a lot more potential than it's realizing because in 1995 the park pulled in 2.4 million people (pre Premiere Parks), and last year they only managed to drag in 1.7, that's a difference of 700,000 in attendance, a 30% drop from the mid 90s. What happened between 95 and 99 to cause such a drop? New management came in that stopped making improvements and upkeeping the place.
So don't give me this lie that the Houston park is doing as well as it could hope, because attendance is down a LOT since Premier took over and started treating it like a dump. People are still coming since it's the only thing around, but they are definitely coming less.
rollergator said:
....chris, Talking Heads now. You're the real DJ here..... Besides, what's a park like SFGAm, without the competition of SoCal, doing with ANOTHER new coaster....
Aherm Cp. Most midwesterners compare the two parks and drive about the same distance to get to both. Cedar point is getting a new attraction therefore Sfgam is getting one.
Plus it's a clone so don't get your panties in a bunch.
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How many rides must a man go on, before you may call him a fan?
A mid-sized GCI woodie will not raise attendance in any single park by 700,000 guests in one year. It's folly to think it would. While it may be a step in the right direction for a park like SFAW, the others you mentioned have all gotten some new coasters in the last 5 years, but the attendance has not significantly gone up. I do agree with whoever says that SFAW needs a fresh coat of paint.
And to Pancake, the best solution for you is to move. Complaining about how "unfairly" your homepark is treated at EVERY SINGLE OPPERTUNITY YOU GET is not getting the job done, is it?
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Nothing... NOTHING... can prepare you for... the Fourth Dimension!
No, not SFMM. I am just saying that, like it has been brought up, a park whose attendence is declining (regardless of the cause) gets a new coaster, particularly the white elephant SFWOA (not that it's a bad park, just that they have spent so much and gotten so little). However, if you need to introduce a thrill ride every two years to prevent your attendence from falling, I would believe that there are other alternatives you can consider to bolster your attendence, i.e. King's island's expansion of kiddie rides.
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How many rides must a man go on, before you may call him a fan?
CycloneWacko, are you saying you could get three GCI coasters for $10-$12 million? 'Cause you can't - GCI coasters are much more expensive than that.
-Nate
*** This post was edited by coasterdude318 on 10/24/2002. ***
My mistake, I was thinking of CCI (3 mil). Sorry. Still, it is economically feasible. 2 of them could still recoup quite a bit.
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How many rides must a man go on, before you may call him a fan?
Soggy hit the nail on the head when he said:
"And to Pancake, the best solution for you is to move. Complaining about how "unfairly" your homepark is treated at EVERY SINGLE OPPERTUNITY YOU GET is not getting the job done, is it?"
I agree, Soggy. But what would he have to talk about if it wasn't "SFAW is getting screwed"?
Moosh - realizing Pancake probably won't buy any of my Xmas cards or coaster merch...oh well.
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*** This post was edited by Mamoosh on 10/25/2002. ***
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www.tripowered.com - The future of music.
Soggy said:
"CyclobeWacko: A poorly performing park? I hope you are not talking about SFMM. It's the highest attended Six Flags Park.
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Nothing... NOTHING... can prepare you for... the Fourth Dimension!"
Er...That would be Great Adventure
Soggy said:
And to Pancake, the best solution for you is to move. Complaining about how "unfairly" your homepark is treated at EVERY SINGLE OPPERTUNITY YOU GET is not getting the job done, is it?
Well, no that's silly. I'm not going to move just because the theme park near me sucks. Got much more important things to worry about, but it still sucks.
"Er...That would be Great Adventure".
Er, not this year. Take a listen to the conference call...
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"Escuse me, can you tell me where the heck the Mystery Lodge is"?
-Nate
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