Tea Parties, Glenn Beck protest Muslim Family Day at Six Flags Great America

I know in WV, when I was working with Medicaid there, they were trying to move towards a system where families had to select a primary care physician, and people were given basic or enhanced services thru Medicaid based on their participation in preventative health maintainence. Basically, they were advocating being healthy first so that the state DIDN'T have to pay out big bucks when your end up in poor health.

It was on the way up when I left. Once people started to realize that they couldn't get around it, they 'gave in' and started following the rules to enhanced care. Not sure if NC does that as I only do intake of apps and I haven't been here long enough to know all of the policy, but WV was definitely working towards trying to have a healthier population of people on govt. assistance (Since, you know, they're around 50th in the nation for health and obesity).

djDaemon said:
Hmmm... I wonder if we'd have less fat, smoking babies if their parents had access to better healthcare, and were thus better informed and aware of the dangers of such behavior.

We need PHYSICIANS to teach this to people?

If they're that stupid clearly all they do is watch Fox news and thus deserve it!

*A huge reason they have such a shortage of doctors in Canada is because of their health care system. They limit how much a doctor can make,*

And with no Tort reform and non regular payments from Govt covering the cost. How many are going to sign up 8 years and hundreds of thousands in loans to do it? As it stands now, We got lots of people coming from Out of country willing too because in places like India, Bulgaria and others, They are relatively poor being a dr.

*About the wait times, listen to Jeff. The wait times are not long at all for most Canadians, but Canada is having issues trying to employ enough doctors in RURAL areas, and smaller towns, and if you do not have a family doctor, yes then you may have a longer wait at one of the many walk-in clinics. But you still get served, as long as you have a health card.
And if the doctor finds something of concern, you will be tested right away. You're not going to wait 8 months for an MRI, if a doctor finds grape-size lump on your breast. You're going to the front of the line*.

And theres a major difference here. US 300 million spread among hundreds of cities. Canada 35 million and about 80 percent are near 5-10 major cities. There are more MRIs and CT machines in greater cincy/dayton than the entire west of Windsor in Canada

My sole concern is number of drs available. Our govt doesn't make regular payments to drs and hospitals as it is and delays of 18 months are not uncommon, Can I mow your lawn today and get paid a year and a half later?

Charles Nungester said:
Question, Can you use a canadian HC plan in the USA, Britain, South Africa? Brazil?
I know I can using Anthem.

Thats a honest question and not biased in any way. Do they sell business trip or vacation HC insurance?

Yes you are covered in other countries. However when traveling to the US many Canadians get travel insurance since the provincial healthcare will only reimburse what the procedure would cost in the specific province.

For example my partner dislocated his shoulder while skiing in Vermont. The procedure to get it reset and for slings etc cost around $1400 USD. They billed him, the province covered about $500 of it and his insurance through his credit card covered the rest. The same thing happened last year while skiing in British Columbia and the bill was under $500 CDN and was fully covered by Ontario healthcare. Travel insurance is very inexpensive and some credit cards will cover it if you pay for the trip with that card, the same sort of way they cover car rental insurance.

wazsterling said:
...take a look at all of the muslim countries in the world and see how the conduct themselves top to bottom and be a little weary of their conduct.

Worst first post ever. What an ignorant generalization. There are three practicing Muslims in the group I work in, one of which is an American citizen (plus one green card and one H1 visa). You know how they "conduct themselves?" Like anyone else I know.

BDesvignes said:
America has higher obesity rates and higher smoking rates than Canada. America is also much more diverse than Canada... Once again we have a higher rate of obesity and we also have more babies born to teenagers and unwed mothers. These factors create more low birth weight babies which leads to a higher mortality rate.

All of which are health issues influenced by health care. Next. Furthermore, if you think Canada is less diverse than the US, I don't think you've been to Canada. And to debunk your later point, read up on the data that suggests that minorities' lack of access to health care is what hurts life expectancy and infant mortality rates, not genetics.

Thanks Cropsey.

So looking at 90 percent of muslim run countries is an ignorant generalization? How do you rationalize that the three you know somehow gives a better understanding of the muslim culture as a whole is some how more enlightened. I have friends who used to live in the middle east and moved hear after having their lives threatened because they are practicing christians. Does that somehow give me a better understanding of how muslims act. Or how about the group of men and women I know being held in prison in a different muslim run country because they were accused of passing out Bible verses. Does that make me some sort of muslim expert because I can personally relate to those that muslims have treated poorly. No, instead I looked at how a majority of muslims in the world choose to run their societies. And by the way I didn't say they where all terrorists or bad people, all I said was that i am leery of how they act as a group. I am sorry that they come under a little more scrutiny because of how others that profess to have the same beliefs as them act. And thanks for taking one small part of a long post and making a generalization on how ignorant the whole post was.

Jeff

What does being obese have to do with healthcare? I know plenty ofobese people with health insurance and access to doctors. Obesity is not something controlled by health care. Same thing goes for smoking. Those are personal choices people make not a result of health care being bad.

Also Canada is much less diverse than America. about 2.5% of their population is black and their hispanic population is less than that. 12.5% of America is black with a hispanic population around 15%. So just because you went to Canada and saw a black guy doesn't mean Canada is as diverse as America.

So looking at 90 percent of muslim run countries is an ignorant generalization?

Out of 47 countries where the Muslim religion was the Majority, I counted only 6 as Muslim states. And that doesn't count the other millions of people in other countries that practice the religion.

So, yes, looking at 90% of Muslim Countries and generalizing all 1 billion muslims is an ignorant generalization. Looking at that, and then making the assumption that everyone in all 6 of those Islamic States believes the way that the state dictates, you're still only looking at 328,000,000 out of 1 billion people.

So judging a whole religion on what you assume 30% thinks is still a pretty ignorant generalization.

Edit: still suck at spelling

Edit 2: added a '0' to make it 30%

^ Are you talking about 3% or 328,000,000 out of 1 billion? I'm confused.

Btw, what percent of the population do pollsters generally question?

Sorry, I forgot a 0, that was 30% (which is still a rather small number to base an entire group on, even if that entire 30% agreed with the government they lived under).

If 30% of Tea Partiers were members of the KKK would that be a small number?

I don't think 300 million is a 'small' number, but as opposed to 1 billion, it's too small of a number to base you're entire outlook on. And 30% isn't a majority, it's still safely under half to be a minority.

wazsterling said:
So looking at 90 percent of muslim run countries is an ignorant generalization?

First off, you're making a baseless generalization, which is ignorant, and furthermore, we're talking about Americans here. Yes there are Muslim Americans (and the fact that you can't capitalize it only shows how disrespectful you are).

BDesvignes said:
What does being obese have to do with healthcare?

You're kidding, right? Do you honestly think that longevity and lower mortality rates have zero to do with health issues? That Canada has half as many people (on a per capita basis) that are obese is just coincidence? You can argue this all you want, the numbers support a correlation between quality of life and availability of health care.

So just because you went to Canada and saw a black guy doesn't mean Canada is as diverse as America.

Cute. I noticed you left out the Asian population. But that doesn't matter anyway, because the issue was not one of minority composition but one of availability. Even if it was, it only supports my point, that minorities in the US have less access to health care.

Wazsterling:
If your sole basis for questioning an entire religion is their imprisonment practices, I hope you don't look at Guantanamo and judge Christianity.

Regardless of what political philosophy you subscribe to, do you take the actions of the leadership of our country as a representative example of their religion? Would it be fair for someone to say, "Well president N did XYZ, so that must be what Christians are like?"

I understand there's a distinction in that the countries you refer to are Muslim states, but the point still stands - the actions of a few, even in leadership positions, do not represent the beliefs of the whole.

The issues are so complex (history, culture, politics, personal egos and vendettas, society) that to look at one part of the practices of a few governments and then generalize over more than a billion people (and all the past and future Muslims) is ludicrous.

Jeff said:

BDesvignes said:
What does being obese have to do with healthcare?

You're kidding, right? Do you honestly think that longevity and lower mortality rates have zero to do with health issues? That Canada has half as many people (on a per capita basis) that are obese is just coincidence? You can argue this all you want, the numbers support a correlation between quality of life and availability of health care.

Obesity causes health problems but isn't caused by the health care system. Is a doctor going to turn a fat person into a skinny one? No, it's a societal problem.

Jeff said:

So just because you went to Canada and saw a black guy doesn't mean Canada is as diverse as America.

Cute. I noticed you left out the Asian population. But that doesn't matter anyway, because the issue was not one of minority composition but one of availability. Even if it was, it only supports my point, that minorities in the US have less access to health care.

I was only providing examples about their population vs America's since you stated that Canada's population is just as diverse as America's and they aren't. I never said anything about minorities having less access to healthcare. I was stating that having a more diverse population introduces more health problems and can lower the average life expectancy.

BDesvignes said: I was stating that having a more diverse population introduces more health problems and can lower the average life expectancy.

So...you prefer a less-diverse population? Let me guess: all white (and straight) is what you'd like, eh?

You forgot blond hair and blue eyes.

The real sad thing is that the uneducated population in America actually watches, believes and supports an institution like FOX News. They just provide what the people want... And we wonder why our country is going to hell, its because people are generally complete idiots who let someone else tell them what to believe about everything instead of forming their own decisions. At the same time, logical decisions can only be based on available information, and if the information is all lies, then how can we expect the population to make any logical decisions?

@ Tekwardo
I am guessing you got those numbers from Wikipedia. and according to whoever wrote that you are correct that only 6 are identified as islamic states. However, that doesn't count all of the countries that have a Islam as their state religion. Many of the secular states also hold Shri'a or other form of Islamic law as both viable and legitimate. If you want to play around with number, and it sees that you do, you can add all of the muslims who live in a country that has Islam as their national religion and that bumps up the number an additional 240 million give or take. combining that with your original 328 million you get 568 million. We are past the half way mark and I didn't even add "secular" governments that allow some form of Islamic law to used in courts. Are we at a number yet that satisfies you yet. And how is being cautious about how a group of people conducts itself a bad thing. I have in no way stated any desire to attack or punish muslims here. All I have advocated is that when a muslim group makes a push for something that action should be meet with some extra skepticism.

@El Gato -
You might want to learn to read. or at least comprehend an argument before you respond. Did I say anything about Fox and racism? no. Did I say anything about them not having a slant. No, if you read the post you will actually see that I infer that they do have a slant. Did I say that the Canada is needed the U.S. for defense. No, all I asserted was that since America has such a huge military it is not incumbent upon Canada to spend nearly as much as still be relatively secure knowing that if needed American would be there to help. Therefore, they have more money to spend on expensive social nets like their healthcare system. By the way asking for help in Afghanistan isn't a sign that somehow the Canadian military is on par with Americas. As far as the left not twisting stories? What about Dan Rather and the Coast Guard papers and that was intended to influence a presidential election. Not to mention that he was forced to take back the story after standing by it after it was debunked. And here is a twitter post from your oh so fair minded Olberman.
@m4zdaman ah yes, the Klan. Formed by those who refused to accept the government or blacks in power. In other words, The Tea Party
10:02 AM Jul 25th via Twitterrific in reply to m4zdaman
Your right that sounds very on keel. Nothing inflammatory or false here.
At no point do I ever say I watch Fox news. To be honest I search the internet for my news as well as read my two local papers. If you would have taken time to read my post you would have read that I like to get news from Both sides. Please don't act like the left doesn't have wacko's who are a threat to others. Ever heard about William Ayers? And he is friends with the President. Oh yea I almost forgot the play that was put on about killing Bush while he was still in office. But, by now I am sure you are frothing at the mouth angry as can be and you still haven't understood the point. So I will write it again in the hopes that you will read it slowly and try to understand it. WE should all do a better job of not demonizing the other side but having a real civil discussion about how to move in a better direction. I am going to assume that you still don't get it since you wrote a post doing exactly the opposite of what I was encouraging everyone to do. Oh by the way maybe, just maybe it is you would is prejudice against people on the right. Just reread your post and see if you can see how degrading and belligerent.

@DJDaemon
I am not talking about speaking. Take a look at what he is invested in finically and the companies he is working with. Now take a look at the proposed bills in the "green" sector and how they benefit those companies and his pocketbook. If he really believed in what he was pushing please explain the enormous mansion he just built for himself. That doesn't seem very green. For your other point. I don't care if they are wary of us or not. So what someone takes an extra look into our motives. They may have good reason to do so.

@ Jeff
I live in metro detroit. Which is right by the dearborn MI. That happens to be one of the largest concentrations of muslims in the country. I have muslims as friends, coworkers and acquaintances. A number of them who are immigrants. As I have had discussions with them we tend to be on the same page. Where the 9/11 attackers not living here before the attack? Did some of their neighbors not say they were nice guys? Please let me be clear! I DON'T THINK THAT MUSLIMS = TERRORISTS. What I am saying is with the current climate around the world it should be more than acceptable to be leery of their conduct. I can't understand why this is such a detestable thought. Or are you just picking a bone with a generalization. One you claim is baseless. Why don't you take a look at the human rights records of these countries. I hate that I have to be so blatant but, I AM NOT SAYING ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL AND ALL COUNTRIES WHERE THERE IS A MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS ARE BAD. I Feel like i am explaining an argument to a child. Isn't it reasonable to look at how people who call themselves muslim act around the world and make a reasonable stance that we should take a little more time to understand why they are doing certain things. What is so horrible about that? By the way I am a christian and i don't capitalize that either. It is not a sign of disrespect at all.

@ ApolloAndy
imprisonment isn't the only thing that a government is responsible for and not even one of my biggest issues. As I stated above, in many cases their human rights are far below what should be acceptable. And it is not just the governments, take a look at the imans and clerics in the world. They are often times worse than the governments. Again, so that I am crystal clear. What is wrong with assessing a group of people on their actions and being wary of them based on what you have witnessed? As far as Guantanamo bay is concerned, if someone wants to take issue with a prison that gives far more freedoms to those inside than americans would receive then I am fine with that. I GB perfect? No, of course not, but I would take that as an enemy combatant verses what anyone on our side gets which usually includes a dull knife to the neck. What is wrong with generalization? Are not the french known for great food and wine and being a little rude? Don't the Irish drink a lot of beer? Are Americans not fat self centered? (By the way, if you can't figure out that being obese and smoking are bad for your health, a doctor telling you is not going to help). Now all of the people in those groups are not like that, maybe even a majority are not. But that doesn't stop you having that information affect the way you see those people. Now that might not be fair to everyone and I may not be fair to everyone. But when you align yourself with a particular group you are inviting those preconceptions of that group. I deal with it all the time. People who find out I am a Bible believing Christian who is very active in my church I am already labeled in many peoples minds. I know many of you are already thinking I knew he was an idiot, or i knew he was a bigot, homophobe, racist... (if you are and I am going to guess that many of you are. you are doing the same thing you are condemning me for.) Do I understand why some (and if you are honest, you) may feel that way? Of course I do but that does not offend me or change that I will strive to change that prejudgment of me when we interact.