Tea Parties, Glenn Beck protest Muslim Family Day at Six Flags Great America

RGB: No offense, but you have been drinking the Kool-Aid for far too long.
You must be insane to think Corporations should not have to pay taxes. Do you honestly believe giving corporation tax breaks actually helped this country? The same corporations who shipped jobs overseas, the minute Clinton rammed through GATT and NAFTA? The idea that tax cuts for the rich and corporations benefits the middle class citizen is absurd as believing Flight Deck at Canada's Wonderland is smooth as silk.

Corporations are evil. They are evil because it was decided in the early 20th century that Corporations are a "person", and thus has the same rights as a person. Considering many corporations employ cheap slave labour to make their products, use the public domain as the dumping ground for their toxic, occasionally sell toxic and dangerous products because it was calculated the fine would be cheaper than actually making the product safe, yeah I would say most corporations are evil, because we said they are a "person", and making money at the expense of human lives, and the environment is pretty damn evil.

Quite frankly, it is disgusting to be forced to invest in those Corporations, because you have little other choice to save for a nice retirement. What's so difficult about having putting money in a government pension plans? At least some banker is not gambling with your money for personal gain, and crying for a bailout when they lose your money!

Touchdown said:
...how are not going to end up rationing health care. The bill as it stands now is simply going to destroy our current insurance market in 10 years and does not supply an adequate replacement.

Yeah right, The insurance industry LOVES this bill. This bill is going to help the insurance like you wouldn't believe. That is the problem. The very same death panels that have stood between you, and your doctor for most of your life is only going to get stronger.

And I do not anyone from the Tea Party calling to repeal the Bush Tax cuts, and end subsidies to corporations making astronomical profits! Why not?

Anyways, I like coasters, except for Flight Deck. Tear it down, and build a B&M flyer!

Jeff said:

Seriously, has anyone heard of a place called Canada.

Even Canada has problems. They're very polite, though. :)

I try to avoid conversations like this but always get sucked in and it annoys me. I am especially sensitive now because in Pittsburgh our public transit funding in under threat and all I hear from conservative suburbanites and their elected officials is that they don't think they should be paying for Pittsburgh public transit or infrastructure. They don't care about the facts.

Dollywood, Carowinds, Hilton Head, SC and Asheville, NC in two weeks! Can't wait. I love me some new coasters.

@Walt: No one suggested Canada was perfect, but their health care system is better than ours, despite not having enough doctors to meet demand.

Why is then that Candians that can jump the border to get things like open heart surgery in the US because the wait for that procedure is measured in years? Its not perfect, but its better then what this bill will leave us with here.

Yes the bill is a money windfall for the insurance companies, for 10 years. That is when they have to accept any person and must charge them the same as everyone in the plan, and the year when they can no longer raise premiums without first getting approval from the federal government. Most industry experts expect most insurance companies to simply stop offering health insurance that year or shortly after that because it will no longer be profitable, thus bringing about the end to health insurance as we know it.

The problems in Canada have been covered already, but it is also interesting to note that England is currently thinking about ending their socialized system.

There is no way that Americans are ever going to accept waiting for procedures like Europe and Canada, no way, we as a culture are too impatient. Rationing is the way that those systems keep costs down, and there is no way in this society that we will allow that, all that it will take is one massive lawsuit to change any rationing plan in place. If you think we as a country are bankrupt now, just wait until we have to pay for health care for all.

That's nonsense. If you need open heart surgery, it's typically an emergency. You don't have to wait for that in Canada any more than you would here. Yes, some things you have to wait longer for (see the Wikipedia article), but it's absolute fact that Canadians have a longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates. You don't get that with a "worse" system.

Canada is trying to beat the waiting problem, as much of it is a shortage of doctors. It's a solvable problem. It's not "rationing," a loaded term intended to invoke fear. The alternative in the US is that the insurance companies will simply deny what a doctor says you need. That's the reality.

These are points that are in reference to many posts and do not deal with anyones post in particular.

A huge reason they have such a shortage of doctors in Canada is because of their health care system. They limit how much a doctor can make, so becoming a doctor is much less attractive when you start to factor in the time and cost of becoming a doctor. You might not have realized that they can "afford their "free" health care system because they don't have to fully fund their own national defense. As well as paying an average 35-40 percent in income taxes gives them the capital to fund a socialized plan. Most countries in the west can have a Socialized plan because the U.S. subsidizes their national security and since we don't have a socialized health system we also put a tremendous amount of capital into R@D.

As far as hating companies and them being evil, I can understand where you would come up with some of your reasons. But I would seriously ask you where in human history you find a government that isn't? I have a really hard time when people rail on businesses for being evil and give their trust to government. i.e. social security vs personal investemnt, private health insurance vs govt. run program... What exactly makes them so different? They are both run by people who crave power and money(we all do).

Can we please stop with the people on the Right/Left are stupid and just being fed propaganda. For an example - @El Gato you comment that those in the tea parties are being played. Does Al Gore not stand to make millions upon millions with the "green initiative"? Or how about Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton making a living off claiming racism at every turn. And don't pull the I am not saying that my side doesn't do what I am killing the other side for doing. I can not stand it and it is very intellectually dishonest to kill someone for a certain stance and then when called out say oh yea i am not going to say we don't do it or of course that happens on both sides. That is the height of hypocrisy. Hear is just a suggestion, instead of standing on a hill and pointing and complaining about what the other side is doing do some hard work and correct what is wrong with you and your side.

To get back to the original content. I do not hate or fear Muslims, although I do not find it to be illogical to take a look at all of the muslim countries in the world and see how the conduct themselves top to bottom and be a little leery of their conduct. In no way would I ever say that all muslims are terrorists. But you would have to admit the conduct coming from the leadership of the muslim countries and groups has to be called into question. This is not an isolated example i.e. oklahoma city. To compare the two is ludicrous. The single events may be comparative but as you take a step back and look at the bigger picture they are two totally different beasts.

Lastly, I find the constant fox news bashing amusing. For those of you who can't seem to rip on fox news enough, I wonder where you get your news, CNN, MSNBC, Time, NYT, NPR... At the very least you have to admit that non of them tell a story without a slant (read bias) All of them skew to the left either a little or a lot. I try to watch or read stories from both sides and then form an opinion. Why don't you equivocate the same type of speech with Oberman and Shultz as you do with Beck and Limbaugh. Why aren't you angry and upset with the hateful things that Oberman and Shultz say and do as you do with the other two. And hear is a free tip for everyone. Just because someone agrees with you doesn't make them right. So while you are watching your O'Riely, Beck, Oberman, Shultz... don't just assume because you agree that they are smart or right.

wazsterling said:
Does Al Gore not stand to make millions upon millions with the "green initiative"?

People say that a lot, and it really is BS. As with pretty much every ex-PotUS or ex-VPotUS, speaking gigs net them millions after they leave office. Bush, GW, Clinton, Gore, etc., all do (or did) speaking gigs/concerts, and make a killing at it. Gore could have easily made similar money speaking at colleges and the like, but he used his platform to try and make a difference. That's not to say his motives are completely pure, but c'mon, it's not like he doesn't believe any of it, either.

...I do not find it to be illogical to take a look at all of the muslim countries in the world and see how the conduct themselves top to bottom and be a little weary of their conduct. In no way would I ever say that all muslims are terrorists. But you would have to admit the conduct coming from the leadership of the muslim countries and groups has to be called into question.

One could easily say the same about the United States, which many would call a "Christian Nation" (though I find that particular description to be nauseating). Our conduct, especially with regard to international policy, has been pretty atrocious at times. Should people be wary of Christians, just as you suggest we should be wary of Muslims?

RatherGoodBear said:

As an aside to everyone who absolutely hates big business or corporations, do you have 401Ks, or other kind of investments? If so, I wonder what the money is invested in.

Honestly, whenever I look at the companies my 401K is invested in, it makes me feel slimy that I have any financial connection to them whatsoever. Unfortunately my plan doesn't offer me any options to specify what companies I'm invested in, so if I don't want to live in a cardboard box when I retire, I don't have many choices right now. I'm personally not a fan of the stock market at all and would rather not have anything to do with it.

I do think you and I (and probably conservatives and liberals in general) could agree that the lobbyists need to be barred from politics. I'm convinced that their influence over politics is likely the #1 cause of most of this country's problems today, and the #1 reason the problems won't be fixed anytime soon. I'd also like to see term limits (no more than 8 years) imposed on all members of congress, but I realize this is also a pipe dream.

As for the whole "global warming is fear mongering" thing that the right likes to toss out, I have to disagree. I don't think you can call it that when overwhelming amounts of scientific research shows it to be true. Yes, I'm aware that studies exist that dispute or question global warming, but the scientific consensus says otherwise. Fear mongering, in my opinion, looks more like people getting whipped into a frenzy just because a peaceful group decided to visit an amusement park.

Wow, so much misinformation about the Canadian Health care system! For one, it is a system that is mandated by the Federal government, and administered, and funded by the provinces. The government has absolutely no control over the doctors, and hospitals! None! They are private businesses, and citizens that are paid by the government to provide health services. Therefore when you're sick, you can go to the doctor, and simply show your health care(for me it's OHIP, Ontario Health Insurance Plan), and that's it! We do pay into insurance, it is government insurance, and we like it, because insurance is actually something the government does really, really well. It's simply a pool, and the government cannot skim profit from it, because the government is accountable to the people! Yes, I know, it's a new concept to right-wingers.

About the wait times, listen to Jeff. The wait times are not long at all for most Canadians, but Canada is having issues trying to employ enough doctors in RURAL areas, and smaller towns, and if you do not have a family doctor, yes then you may have a longer wait at one of the many walk-in clinics. But you still get served, as long as you have a health card.
And if the doctor finds something of concern, you will be tested right away. You're not going to wait 8 months for an MRI, if a doctor finds grape-size lump on your breast. You're going to the front of the line.

Wazsterling: If you honestly think Faux News is not stirring up racism, and delivering heavily edited, and out of context stories daily, then I pity you. Your comments on Canadian healthcare are dead-wrong, same with your silly comments about Canada needing the US for defence(The US ASKED Canada for help in Afghanistan!) I'll bet you get all your info from Fox News?, New York Post? Drudge report? This is the difference between "right leaning" and "left-leaning" media. The right has no problem in twisting the story to suit their needs while figures such as Rachel Maddow, and Keith Olbermann actually try to deliver stories, and will ADMIT when they got a story wrong. They do not claim to be news shows anyways. One great example of how crappy FOX is, is the ACORN issue. The video was released by that scumbag Andrew Breitbart, and fox news ran that story over, and over again, without even checking the facts! ACORN did nothing wrong, and it was shown the video was heavily edited, and ACORN was not helping those fake pimps. That is Fox News. Delivering lies daily, and you absorb it like a sponge! I'll bet you were cheering the heroism of FOX news breaking the story of Shirley Sherrod admiting to be a racist... Oh right, the video was 24 years old!

Hear is just a suggestion, instead of standing on a hill and pointing and complaining about what the other side is doing do some hard work and correct what is wrong with you and your side.

I would advise you to heed your own advice, and look for elsewhere for your news. Faux News is NOT a credible news source. There is a lot wrong with "your side" to the extent people will die. The pilot flying his plane into the IRA building, the guy who ambushed cops in Pittsburgh because he was afraid Obama was coming to take his guns, the heavily armed guy travelling to California to kill "a bunch of liberals". There is significant difference here. Left-wingers are not killing people, and threatening to kill the "Socialist" in the white house!

Fox News is stirring up racism against Muslim, and Blacks, and if you cannot see what is going on, I do not know what to say. Blacks, and Muslims are becoming the new right-wing boogeyman issue!

Jeff said:
... but it's absolute fact that Canadians have a longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates. You don't get that with a "worse" system.

Saying Canada has a higher life expectancy so they must have better healthcare is a wrong statement to make. There are many factors that go into that statistic that you haven't taken into account. America has higher obesity rates and higher smoking rates than Canada. America is also much more diverse than Canada. All of thoe things impact life expectancy.

The infant mortality rate is also a terrible stat to use to assess our health care system against Canada. We are very different from Canada and other countries. Once again we have a higher rate of obesity and we also have more babies born to teenagers and unwed mothers. These factors create more low birth weight babies which leads to a higher mortality rate.

why would you invest your money in a business you didn't trust, didn't approve of their product, or plain out didn't want to see succeed?

Personally I don't, but I wasn't answering based on my opinions. I don't trust the government or corporations to do what is in the absolute best interests of the people, because too many people at the top are only there to help themselves. Doesn't mean I hate either or won't give my money to corporations.

My comment was simply that I can lack trust in a corporation, but still use it for my personal needs, which was in response to your comment to (I believe) 8.3 which seemed to imply that if you can't trust a company, you can't support it.

I don't trust Walmart to do whats in my best interest, or in the interests of the people who work there (and this coming from a former employee), but I still shop there. It's a company that wants to do nothing more than make money, so why should I put any type of trust in it?

As for the healthcare debate, I mostly only see people who have healthcare, or who can afford it complaining because they're going to have to have it, even if they don't want it. But working in Medicaid every day, with people who are scraping by, barely able to make it, who have serious health problems and can neither afford healthcare, nor are eligible for it under medicaid or medicare, I have to say that we definitely needed some type of Healthcare reform.

The people I see complaining really don't seem to know how things work on a state or federal level, and only believe what they see on TV or on the Net, and that's so far away from how it really works.

Question, Can you use a canadian HC plan in the USA, Britain, South Africa? Brazil?
I know I can using Anthem.

Thats a honest question and not biased in any way. Do they sell business trip or vacation HC insurance?

You can use Anthem in Canada, yet I can't use my work-provided/owned health insurance in the next county.

It's seriously annoying to have to drive 45 minutes in order to go to the doc.

For those that care, many of the larger firms have "socially responsible" funds which only invest in companies that have magically determined to have a positive impact on the world and the community. How they determine which companies are "socially responsible" is a whole 'nother story, but it's possible to have a decent retirement and also vote with your money.

Also, BDesvignes,
Just curious: How does diversity affect life expectancy?

Question, Can you use a canadian HC plan in the USA, Britain, South Africa? Brazil?

I don't know, but that isn't the point, because the Healthcare Reform Act here won't work like Canada.

Aside from tax increases on certain tax brackets, and the provision for insurance companies to be unable to reject certain people due to pre-existing conditions, most of the bulk of the healthcare act won't go into effect until 2014. At that point, you're going to be required to have medical insurance or get fined if you don't, and that's what most people have an issue with.

This will only affect people who don't have insurance, so, if you have Anthem, then good. But if you don't have insurance (maybe you can't afford it at this point), you will have to have it then. And if you can't afford health insurance, I doubt seriously you'll be going out of the country. People who are already receiving Medicaid can't use it in every state in the country anyways, and I doubt very seriously many Medicaid recipients will be going abroad.

There will be changes to Medicare and Medicaid as well, although with Medicaid, since that is state run, the state governemnts are working on changes now, and we don't know what they'll be yet.

Even if you don't agree with the healtcare act, and the government forcing insurance on people, a lot of people will benefit from having health coverage they wouldn't normally have gotten, and if you don't deal with those people 5 days a week, often times you don't realize how many people this will positively affect. And again, I don't think it matters if what they get doesn't get them coverage in Brazil, cause, you know, I don't see many people running to another country anywho.

Different ethnic and racial groups lead very different lives and have different genetic makeups. When you combine them you may have one group with typically lower life expectancies mixed with a group with higher life expectancies. That will overall bring the average down. This combined with the very heavy smoking back in the earlier 1900s, higher than average obesity rates, higher than average murder rates and traffic accident deaths hurts America's average life expectancy. It has nothing to do with our healthcare system. In fact the average life expectancy has been on the rise and can be attributable to the great health care system that we have in this country. The delivery system may not be the best but the care provided here is the best in the world.

Hmmm... I wonder if we'd have less fat, smoking babies if their parents had access to better healthcare, and were thus better informed and aware of the dangers of such behavior.

I think we have lead the world in the decline of smoking and its not a huge issue anymore. Obesity is on the rise though, but that's attributable to peopple leading more sedintary lives and bad food being so cheap and readily available. It has nothing to do with healthcare.

Preventative medicine accounts for less than 3% of our nation's total healthcare expenditures. There may not be any "magic bullet" to our healthcare situation (actually, there most certainly is NOT), but a significant economic recovery without a re-ordering of our priorities seems unlikely.

Better results overall won't really come from further advances in critical care (which is where the US system is already a world leader), but in caring for our citizens' health on a daily basis to minimize the need for "heroic measures". Diet, exercise, and stress management are the area where we need to begin investing in the HEALTH of our people. As it is now, we wait until their quality of life is jeopardized and then take drastic (and expensive) measures to prolong the last few days, weeks, and months...when the individual is likely to rate their quality of life as fairly low.

Heard a great story on NPR about the so-called "death panel providions" that were stripped from the bill. Sure sounds less threatening when the end-of-life counseling is described in detail rather than simply labeled inappropriately and deemed Fascist Governement Intrusion.