Tatsu specifications released

I see there is still no rest of the SIZE QUEENS of this post. ;) Heres a question for all of you: When you crest the top of the hill and begin to drop, are you HONESTLY going to be so concerned with the measurments or just enjoy the ride??

Since I'm not *on* the ride right now, I guess I'll have to find other ways of entertaining myse...oh, nevermind. I did.

Excellent addition to the real coaster capitol of the world Nuff said

Ending your posts with "Nuff said" doesn't make you more credible, it makes you less credible.

^Nuff said. ;)
So Andy, what does Linsay have to say about all this Physics stuff? :)

^Agreed CoasterHound.

Chernabog, I know what you mean. ;-)

-Tina

You're not talking about "George" are ya, Tina?? :)

OK, in one last final effort, I am going to make a comparison to Millennium Force.

At the bottom of the first hill of Millennium Force, it is going 92 mph, and when it hits its brake run at the end, it's tavelling about 65 mph. Since kinetic energy is based on the velocity squared, that means it is running at almost exactly half its original energy.

Since Tatsu's theoritcal maximum kinetic energy is based on 88 mph, and it's alleged maximum kinetic energy is 62 mph, that, also, is nearly exactly half. Seems good, right?

However, now we hit some differences. Millennium Force has lost half it's energy 6595 feet later whereas the total track length of Tatsu is 3602 feet. Not only that, but the bottom of the pretzel only probably occurs 2800 feet or so into that... under half the length. And Millennium Force was travelling at higher speeds almost the whole ride, so it would have experienced higher drag friction, slowing it down more.

So unless there are some heavy trims on Tatsu, either the elevation change isn't 263 feet or the ride goes faster than 62 mph.

Well, to add to the above statement, at least some of the statistical facts announced on various sites do say that the coaster will be in excess of 62 mph.

This is very interesting to hear..........read all the post about stats and the appropriate physics lessons. Out of all the post I think the one that mentioned the survey readings done by the builders makes most since, not to mention from B&M themselves wouldn't let a huge 93 foot error go un corrected before it's printed. Most others are using knowledge attained at some point in time to try and prove the original stats wrong. Let's just enjoy the fact that the coaster is appropritately themed, placed in a lovely spot, and simply looks amazing based off the animation.

BTW Leave Ruben alone, he's old!

Nuff said! LOL

SFoGswim, maybe I'm the stupid one here, but what does the speed of the ride have to do with the total elevation change?

Tatsu's lift hill asends up to 170ft above the station, and the total descent downward drops to 93ft below the station. Do the math... You can see from the video that it doesn't do this in one swoop. They're simply totaling the difference between the top of the lift to the bottom of the pretzel. Period. End of story.

Your simply over-thinking it. *** Edited 11/19/2005 8:33:07 AM UTC by DWeaver***

I really am not sure what more to say. I explained how it's entirely plausible the ride changes elevation by 263' using physics, a science that's generally really hard to argue with, given that it's the basis of all other sciences and whatnot.

You've used...metaphor? It's not quite even that complex.

If we use the experimentally derived friction slope value of 3%, as listed in the Mouseplanet article, then we see that over its length, Millennium Force must descend about 190' to be sure its moving when it arrives at the station. Since it descends a full 300' or so, it actually descends 110' greater than is required for it to keep moving, meaning of course that it accelerates. The train reaches the station at a speed faster than it leaves the lift hill -- a speed that is the same as that achieved at the bottom of a 110' drop. Using the kinetic and potential energy equations you love so much, we learn that it should actually approach the station somewhere around 56 MPH. Imagine that! Physics does work!

Based on the numbers provided for Superman: Ultimate Flight that indicate the train loses some 7% of its kinetic energy to losses caused by friction -- surely a result of the train's greater mass -- we can make some educated assumptions about Tatsu's behavior. Certainly, they'll be more accurate than comparing it to a completely different sort of ride, moving on completely different hardware, built by a completely different company. Without doing very much math.

62 MPH, when corrected for a 7% loss to friction, is closer to 67 MPH. A 124' change in elevation results in a speed of 60 MPH -- minus 7% for friction again -- and we get 55.8 MPH. The train will be traveling at a speed around 7-10 MPH when it enters the pretzel loop; this doesn't seem unusual based on footage of Superman: Ultimate Flight.

So, at 7% loss, or a 7' descent vertically over 100' horizontally, there must be approximately 2400' of track between the peak of the lift hill and the entrance to the pretzel loop to ensure the train is traveling the same speed at the end that it was at the beginning.

Well, wait a second! The train is probably going to be a bit faster than the snail's pace of the lift hill, right? It sure is. That means that it'd require a bit less track to get to the pretzel loop at the desired speed.

So, in review, our train climbs a 170' lift hill, leaves the lift at about 2.5 MPH and enters a pretzel loop 2350' later at about 10 MPH. Are we all on the same page?

124' at 7% loss requires about 1700'. Again, we'll hit the brake run at some higher speed. Let's say it's 30 MPH; so we'll knock off another few hundred feet of track -- ballpark 1300' or so.

That's 3600' right there. The astute may have realized something fishy about all of this. The ride is 3600' long and all may seem peachy, but in reality, all of this work completely neglects the final brake runs, station and lift. It has to because those parts of the track impart energy onto the train by means other than acceleration due to gravity.

In reality, Tatsu' gravity-driven track length is probably closer to 3000', give or take. But, for ballpark estimations based on what little data is available, I think it's pretty easy to see that when the nice folks who provided the 263' number were sitting in front of a CAD workstation somewhere, they didn't misuse the measure button.

all science is either physics or stamp collecting :\

All this physics stuff makes me.... well... bored.

It seems like all this physics stuff is making everyone else.... well..... randy?

I like physics :) I mean, it doesn't get me all hot and bothered, but it is interesting when there's nothing else on the planet to do.

Like now.

Btw, this ride is near impossible to create in NoLimits. I put the peak at 240 ft. or so, and then the bottom of the pretzel is at about 5 ft (so a 235 ft. elevation change), and the ride hits 74 mph everytime. It enters the loop at 52 mph.

I'm not saying this proves anything, I was just stating...

Who knows, maybe the 263ft figure is to the bottom most footer on the pretzel loop, technically the lowest part of the ride?

jc

I think you are mis-understanding how the layout of this ride is SFoG. The station is not the lowest level of the ride, the bottom of the pretzel is WELL below that of the station. The station is about 93 feet or so above the bottom of the pretzel loop. The train leaves the station and climbs 170 feet from the level of the station. At the top of the lift, you are 170 feet above the station, which is 93 feet above the bottom of the pretzel which is 263 total feet between the lift and the lowest point on the ride.

The train drops off the 170' lift down a 111' drop (59' above the station). As discussed, this would give the train a speed somewhere in the mid-50 mph range. As the train covers the 2000' of track or so before the pretzel loop, it looses some energy before (slowly) climbing 31' above station level and dropping the additional 93' to the bottom of the pretzel. That gives you the 124' pretzel height. So, you've now dropped the whole 263'. At the bottom of the pretzel, the train will be traveling at 62 mph. It then uses the rest of that energy to climb 93' or so to get back to the station level.

See, and I didn't even have to try and impress you with any physics...

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40belowbeef said:
Take another look at the video. Its very easy to tell that the top of the pretzel loop is well above the station. With simple math we can figure out that even if the top of the pretzel loop (124 feet) were level with the station, the lift would have to be 139 feet to add up to 263 feet. Being that the pretzel loop begins above the station, this would mean the lift would have to be well over 139 feet...

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170 feet is "well above 139 feet".. almost 30% more!

Edit: So, by simple math, the top of the pretzel loop would be 41 feet above the station. *** Edited 11/20/2005 1:34:02 AM UTC by dannerman***

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Cory Patrick said:
I think you are mis-understanding how the layout of this ride is SFoG.

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I am perfectly aware how the ride is laid out, thank you (although, a picture of the layout would be convenient). I have watched the video numerous times and am very familiar with the term "elevation change." The only thing I'm saying is that if the elevation change is 263 ft., and occurs at like the 3000' mark, it will be travelling at a higher speed than 62 mph.

...despite everything pointing to the contrary.