Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom Future
So it is 2005 and nothing has happened. So I am not sure how much you can conclude from that. I never knew about the rumor back than, but not sure if that shows evidence that it won't happen anytime in the next 5 years. Moving an entire park is not something you decided over night, and you would have to do feasibility studies and stuff, to prove that making the move makes financial sense.
Although going through the recent trend in Six Flags parks, now would be the time to do it. One can not argue that they are examining each park they own and deciding what they want to do with them. I am sure they have done this to some degree in the past, but now more than ever, parks are being closed or sold.
Whos to say that closing Astroworld was not something they had planned a while ago, maybe even 5 years ago. No one really knows that post on this board, and if they did know they didn't tell anyone. I can't even remember a rumor that Astroworld would close.
So what does this all mean? For one thing, at least the rumor has some validity in that this is not someone making up a story. According to some there was even an article about it a while ago. Now will this rumor actually happen is something we will have to wait and see.
If I had to make a prediction I think the most likely thing is to sell the park to another park chain or owner. Basically the park is not a cash cow like the bigger ones, and doesn't show signs that it will be one anytime soon. Cut your losses and sell it to perhaps a southern based chain like the chain that owns Dollywood and Silver Dollar City. Either that or let a wealth independent owner take over the park and let him run with it.
The next likely possibility is just keep the park as is. Add additions to keep the park not in the red and maintain at least a flat attendance. This is what they have been doing for the last 5 years.
Of course moving the park is an option. if you really were willing to take a risk, that would be the move to make. On the upside you could take the best rides from the existing park, and now have the room to make a much nicer and bigger park that could really draw in guest. On the downside the capital cost for doing such move are great. And moving closer to Kings Island and further from Louisville would be something of a concern. You would be forcing your established base to drive further, on the hopes that your bigger and new park will be a bigger draw.
And finally they could close down. I for one think that is the worst case scenario. As a fan of amusement parks and roller coasters, that is really the worst thing that can happen to someone like me. The day I care more about Six Flags Inc stock, then an amusement park closing, is the day I am really no longer an amusement park or roller coaster enthusiast.
I understand the financial and business side of the industry, but closing parks and destroying roller coasters is never good for the industry. One could just look back in time and see during the post world war era to 1972, was a bleak time for the amusement park industry. Thankfully Kings Island and the Racer saved the day and brought new life into this business.
Now you have a second golden age, but with Six Flags closing parks it could be coming to a close. I just hope Astroworld was just a case specific example where they had to do it for business. If it is the trend, I will be very disappointed. As much as I perfer PKI to Kentucky Kingdom, I did enjoy the park when I went there, and would miss it if it closed.
I am sure many feel the same way about Astroworld. A park that was not perfect by any means, but had some fun rides, and provided some fun times. I also hope that their good coasters, especially Texas Cyclone, are moved to another park. At one time Texas Cyclone was considered the number one roller coaster in the world, and for its historical signficance alone should make it to another park.
I guess I went on a little rant about how I feel about closing parks and my hopes that this is not a trend. *** Edited 9/14/2005 2:46:49 AM UTC by Beast Fan***
Steel158 said:
6FLAGSTHRILLS said:
That is cool with me as long as they move Chang to SFGAm for Iron wolf.Based on past experience, I would rather see Chang sold to a Paramounts park then to see it in the hands of SFGAm.
Something wrong with SFGAm operating coasters that I missed?
My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.
My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.
Beast Fan said:I understand the financial and business side of the industry, but closing parks and destroying roller coasters is never good for the industry.
Unless your company is over $2 billion in debt and the land your park sits on is worth far more than the park itself. If Six Flags doesn't right the ship itself, it'll be left to others to do what they will with the parks. And believe me, the majority of those buyers would much rather tear everything down and put up houses, or malls, or whatever.
Listen, everyone agrees that Astroworld closing sucks. But quit living in this fantasy world where you believe amusement park chains are benevolent, altruistic entities whose goal is to serve the public. They are in the business of making money just like every other business on the planet. When they fail to make money, they fail as a business. If Six Flags has to sacrifice Astroworld (and SFWoA, and who knows what else) to ultimately stay afloat, it's the lesser of two evils. The greater of two evils, as I mentioned before, is giving up completely and selling the parks to the highest bidder, which will more than likely NOT be another amusement park chain. Why? Because it's INSANE to try to run 30 parks in one country, and Six Flags just found that out the hard way.
Beast Fan said:I can't even remember a rumor that Astroworld would close.
*** Edited 9/14/2005 2:46:49 AM UTC by Beast Fan***
I remember hearing that Astroworld was possible getting the axe when Time Warner planning to buy the chain in the early 90's because it was the weakest link of the original (pre-Premier) Six Flags parks.
I not suprised by anything that Premier Six Flags does, they tarnished the Six Flags name with there carnival management style and crippled many of the other parks they bought up, such as Kentucky Kingdom and Geuaga Lake.
Chitown said:
Try again. SFGAm is probably the gem of the SF family as far as running rides. Get out of Louisville and find out how an SF park is supposed to be run.
We have brother, and we found out that we're still better! Until You've worked for SF's You CAN'T say a word! Any park that says "We only heightcheck if their feet don't touch the ground" (iron wolf) ie F'ed up! Biotch
did the "park" say that or one employee, on one coaster, on the one day you visited say that?
I'm aware it's not right, but don't judge the whole park based on the poor reasoning of one person.
Yes that was at SFKK this season. 2 hours in the park and NO THANKS not going back.
Simple feasibility of this move right now is there is NO WAY this is feasible in the next 5 years considering SFI's current financial state. I could name all the steps you need without even condisdering the land buy. But I think I have named the steps elsewhere.
SFKK already bites the bullet when it comes to competition from nearby parks... most notably PKI. Why would they ever move the park even CLOSER to the Cincinnati area?
Also, the location being speculated is a good 40 miles North of Louisville, and 40 miles South of Cincinnati. The only little bit of saving grace that SFKK has had, is that it is located within the Metro Louisville area.
Think about it... why would a Cincy resident drive nearly an hour to get to park, when they have one 20 minutes away?
Why would a Louisvillian drive 40 minutes to get to a park that has a bad reputation in the past, when they could drive an hour to Santa Claus and recieve tons of free amentities from a park with incredible word-of-mouth? Or drive the extra half an hour and be at one of the top rated seasonal theme parks in the country? If a person is gonna drive to the park, they'll go the extra distance for the better quality and bigger experience.
From a marketing standpoint, it would be a disaster.
Take a look at GL. Once the "unique" feature of the park (The Sea World side) was obliviated, interest fell even farthur into the dumps. The general idea is that people would rather travel to CP because of it's positive, established reputation. they avoid going to a park that has been plagued with issues and has no novelty... no matter how "new" it may seem.
If SF were to ever even consider relocating the park (yuk, yuk) then they'd be best suited to looking to the Southeastern area outside of Louisville headed towards Frankfort and Lexington. The area is booming and that way thay could draw from other metro areas. Places on the opposite side of the city which are just a tad bit more than a day trip from PKI and HW.
Shaggy
*** Edited 9/14/2005 2:16:42 PM UTC by Shaggy***
Shaggy
The situations are much different. Is the land KK sits on worth much money? Its a rather sh*thole area as far as I could tell.
But that came after severe cuts to the park's expenditures. Heck, you can see the peeling paint on the rides from 2 miles away. Plus, the addition of rides was doing little to increase the park's annual attendance.
SFKK partly sits on land they own, and partly on land they do not own. Why, part of Chang's land is leased from the fairgrounds, and from what I hear they virtually get raped in costs of using this land.
Right now the Fairgrounds is expanding their convention halls in order to draw more and larger conventions to the area. Expending facilities means an expanded need for land. That seems to make the land that SFKK leases look awfully enticing....
SFKK and AW are very similar IMO. Both suffer from lost revenues and lacking attendance. Both have less than reputable reputations among locals. Both share and utlize lands owned by someone else. Both are land-locked. Both have strict height and zoning restrictions. Both are located away from the booming and economically affluent areas of town. Both are extremely neglected and ignored by their owners. Both need drastic overhauls to improve esthetics. Both suffer from shared parking and experience a loss of that revenue. Both are located in footprints that require guests to cross busy roadways via annoying bridges. Both are located very close to airports.
Am I saying it will close? It might, and it would not surprise me. But do I see impending doom? Nah, not yet.
I think the old addage goes "If you aint catching fish, you gotta cut bait."
Shaggy
*** Edited 9/14/2005 6:00:55 PM UTC by Shaggy***
Shaggy
Finally someone with some sense responds. I just through out the idea since a good friend informed me that farmers in the area were thinking it was going to happen. I think you pointed out alot of things of why some type of measure would be needed for the park. They are not turning in big profits, and now more than ever, Six Flags is dumping its losses.
So I have to think that selling the park is the most viable option. I could not imagine if you could build housing near the fair grounds, so it is likely going to stay an amusement park. Closing it down would not also surprise me, but I think selling it like they did with Geauga Lake might be more likely.
The only thing I would wonder, is would there be any buyers? Who would really buy that park. The only park chain that bought parks with such little growing potential was Premier/Six Flags, and that is what got them in this hole to start with.
Well if they do close, I am calling first dibs on Greezed Lightning . I wonder how I will get a permit to operate that and the couple million to buy it and operate it. But I think I could buy a little land and fit it near my house. *** Edited 9/14/2005 3:04:57 PM UTC by Beast Fan***
thrillerman1 said:
While nice for you to believe Burke's comments kRaXLe, I just don't trust any corporate CEO's. I'm much too cynical, and by no means am I an authority, but I've worked in the corporate world many years and still do. CEO's change their minds at the drop of a hat (and come and go likewise) because the bottom line is the dollar sign and whatever it takes to bring home the green.
Hey that reminds me of the Vikings saying that Randy Moss wasn't going to get traded for months, and we all know what happened there.
I know this has nothing to remotely do with coasters but I thought Thrillerman1's post nailed it on the head about CEO's changing their minds.
Skol Vikings
Let's shoot us some deer Joe Joe!!!!
CoasterDude316 said:
Agreed Scott, maybe you should make a trip to the park and form a opinion of your own instead of going by what you hear from others.
I have...and my opinion is that they have a cool park with good rides. But I guess my experience working with Six Flags operations has enabled me not to be blinded by loads of money and tons of fun an exciting rides and be able to determine that their operations are no better than any other six flags park, and in my opinion...sometimes even worse.
Am I biased? Well, I'll be the first to say that I believe Six Flags St. Louis has better operations than SFGAm.
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