Six Flags is cleaning up

If Great America were to suddenly disappear, that mountain of debt SF is under would get worse, NOT better. It's #2 because NY/NJ is simply a WAY bigger market than Chicago.

Just consider this: SFNJ has a *separately-gated* waterpark.

Or, listen to those people that we KNOW have "insider info". Like AJ for instance... ;)

Even SFMM turns a profit. Del Holland was quick to say so when it was up for sale and no one from the head office contradicted him.

But are any of them--or all of them combined--sufficient to service a couple billion of amassed debt? That's the real question.

-'Playa

Which bring us back to the "Mouse in the Box". Expect this level of attraction for several years, as the company can no longer afford rides with extra large operating costs. Also expect old rides that drain funds every year...to be removed.

^LMAO, so what you're saying is that we can roughly expect Shap-Nyder-Zone to actually follow through with the instructions we'd been giving to Story-Burke-Co for the last 15 years or so... ;)

I like the direction they're going....if it isn't already too-little-too-late...

What rides have "extra large operating costs," and what are these costs?

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Ronman said:
In the world of retail which I work in, it's Christmas 2007. .

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You continue doing what you do best being a Walmart greeter and let the experts in the amusement park industry handle the decisions to get the company in the black.

You guys and girls don't really see what's wrong with Ronman.. He's a White Sox fan. When there is great team like the Cubs in your town and you choose the South side minor league team. Ronman the only reason I go to SFGam.. Because I love the Cubs . If Kiddeland gets one more coaster .. it will be hard just to make the trip up there. *** Edited 11/27/2007 3:01:23 AM UTC by CoasterMonkey***

^Who won the World Series a few years ago and who has sucked consistently for almost 100 years?

Ronman is a tool but he knows the right Chicago baseball team.

I love to shop at Walmart but I'm a union worker. Hey, Cub fans you realize your playing field was totally rebuilt by whom? Mr. Bossard the head grounds keeper at Sox Park. So next year when drizzle no longer floods the friendly confines, thank the White Sox. I can't wait until 2009 for the B@M Dive Coasters to go in. There's always away around debt, look at our country. Everybody knows the clock is ticking for Kiddeland, right? 2010 family battles still seem to favor selling the land. So next couple of years could be the last, so go. What a charming park Kiddeland is.

Wow your own grounds keeper knows that people pay good money to see the Cubs. Ronman good to know that the union has 2 coaster nerds and that we both agree Kiddeland is cool. Chitown when did you become a fan of the Sox.. when they won. 100 years and still most popluar team in National league.

Navy Pier needs to get a Woodie, now that would be something.

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Kevin Max said:
What rides have "extra large operating costs," and what are these costs?

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Besides what's being removed, there is:

Whizzer- maintenance cost due to lack of replacement parts (parts are custom made in house)

Raceway cars- fuel cost and labor cost

loggers run/ yankee clipper- maintenance cost due to age and lack of parts

Roaring Rapids- labor cost and energy costs.

And any of the other attractions that are older and parts are harder to get. That is why the first generation Intamin free-falls have been removed across the country and sky whirl was removed when they installed DV.

If Whizzer is removed.. well there's no hope anymore. Gimme a break. A fresh coat of paint and some new parts, come on. Yes, maybe a little pricey, but it's the best thing the park has going for it. 7.5mil for a mouse in the box?

Where are the Whizzer buttons or tees? How about the 'come ride the classic Whizzer' commercial?

Think outside the corporate box. Other things do work. Better than the "I'm huge in japan" shirts.....

I am so glad somebody is loving Whizzer. I'm so sorry I forgot to mention it. Never once will I miss a Whizzer ride, while at the park. Every point you make is valid. Don't forget to add in The American Eagle as a high matainence ride. If Shapiro takes the same approach to all the rides you mentioned, whats left. Removing Vu is his way of sticking it to the old Six Flags. They wanted those rides so much, now he can point a finger of blame if needed. Shapiro is no guru we all know that. He lied about the weather to put a positive spin on his latest mistakes. Rueters was smart enough not to fall for it and called his stock, junk. The other big change for 2009 is Hurricane Harbor will be seperately gated. Take that one to the bank the free ride is over. Keylime Cove opens in Gurnee in March, then everything changes. Take that one to the bank. 20 million people to draw from, closer then people are to Great Adventure. Yet, the worst attended season ever. With the most favoriable weatherever?. So what does that tell you? for people not living in Illinois a fact, Gurnee Mills is Illinois #1 tourist spot. Wow, everyday people pass the park to go to a mall. Keep it up Shapiro soon Great America Condos, will replace the park.

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otterkpr said:

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Kevin Max said:
What rides have "extra large operating costs," and what are these costs?

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Besides what's being removed, there is:

Whizzer- maintenance cost due to lack of replacement parts (parts are custom made in house)

Raceway cars- fuel cost and labor cost

loggers run/ yankee clipper- maintenance cost due to age and lack of parts

Roaring Rapids- labor cost and energy costs.

And any of the other attractions that are older and parts are harder to get.

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These rides could be taken out in the coming future (besides the ones you mentioned) because they are really "old": Fiddler's Fling, Ricochet, Triple Play, Sky Trek Tower, Hometown Fun Machine, Rue Le Dodge, Demon, Columbia Carousel, The Orbit, East River Crawler, and the Condor is aging. That's a lot of stuff.

Giant Drop could be taken out because many people don't like it anymore, and everyone knows how great Jester's Wild Ride is.

*crackle of static* Earth to genius? Earth to genius?

People go to malls to shop for clothing, food, basic necessities of life. They're generally open 363 days a year--unless there's a movie theater, in which case you can say 365. Much longer than most any theme park.

If your "thinking" was correct, I suppose SFA, BGA, USF, USH, IOA, KBF, SFOT, SFMM and of course Disneyland and WDW should be paved over, too. After all, each and every one of them gets outdrawn by a mall.

But somehow, I don't think they're worried.

-CO

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CoastaPlaya said:
Earth to genius?

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Looking for genius in this thread is like ordering a porterhouse at a 7-11.

*shuffles through cartons*

Is that a cee-gar or a cigarette?

-CO

There is a lot of talk about parks newer rides, and mention of the Whizzer. I think parks like Great America that have some classic and unique rides should be maintaining them. The classic log ride I remember from my youth is a lot more fun than the huge splash rides that were built following it. Great America has two really good ones, in my opinion. It would be nice to see the dual drops being used, but perhaps that is really just a novelty. If a park puts in a ride, they should maintain it. The Whizzer is a great example of it. That is one heck of a ride. It should always get mentioned when they talk about or market the park. It's what makes Great America special. Having a B&M just like every other park isn't. Plus, it's loaded with great flat rides, unlike the Six Flags in Georgia, which is basically all coasters.

^Surprising to me that Whizzer is still there to BE discussed. SFoT, and WoF probably wish they still had Big Bend and Zinger, respectively. They'd probably give virtually anything to have them back, even.

Sure, parts are hard to come by for older rides, but the FAMILY value in those is...well, irreplaceable. Dark Knights will be busy, no doubt, but they won't maintain the consistent drawing power of those old Schwarzkops...

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matt. said:

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CoastaPlaya said:
Earth to genius?

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Looking for genius in this thread is like ordering a porterhouse at a 7-11.

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Well said.

Somewhere along the line, this thread went from an interesting opinion thread to a random conjecture thread based on stating things that (unless I missed it), aren't public knowledge like the attendance levels of the Six Flags parks (We know the chain, not parks -- right?), cost of rides and so on.

All things considering, the management team in charge of the parks seems to have done a fine job so far, and the parks which I have been to have all showed major improvements. I tend to trust them until proved otherwise. If next year's rides suck and guests don't come, then I'll probably look differently -- but all of the additions (and subtractions) so far have been fine by me.

But then again, I don't go to the park expecting to ride a new "B@M" coaster every year. Heck, I'm fine with going and not riding any roller coasters and just enjoying the rest of the park, something which has been made much easier since Shapiro took over.

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Rollergator, interesting comment, but I have to disagree at least a bit. The Dark Knight rides may or may not end up as classics -- I don't think that it is easy to tell what will become a nostalgic ride before suddenly one day it is. The original Batman at Great America is a great example. I remember going to the park in 1992, and the ride was HUGELY popular and the park was constantly packed.

When I stopped this year, Batman had a decent sized line for it. Sure, it wasn't as big as it was in 1992, but it was definitely bigger than most of the rides there. Next year, Batman will be 16 years old. At this point, you can't say the ride is "wearing off" and will get less popular in the future years. It has remained an amazingly popular ride.

Add to this the fact that those who are riding it for the first time now were probably not alive when the ride was built, and they can talk with their parents who can remember their first trip on it when they were younger (a 12 year old could have a parent who was 16 when they first rode, and that parent would now be 31), and it's just about there.

On the other hand, Iron Wolf at the same park was a complete walk on the day that I was there. It's older, but it is definitely *not* a classic ride.

I'm waiting to pass all judgment on the Dark Knight rides. They might be amazing that I'll want to ride again and again, and they might be complete junk that I will ride one and then skip the other ones next year. We'll see.